[Gary]

Surely common sense should prevail here why potentially ruin some ones business because of one member of staffs awful behaviour, Im sorry for you and sympathise but as a person who has done 7 years at my local abbatoir working as the foreman i never had staff behave like this but if i did I think I would have jumped at the chance to heard a complaint and deal with it head on rather than one day the bbc turns up and ROGER COOKE starts firing questions about the menace in the yard. And now people are repling to your thead suggesting we get a petition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This country is going to the dogs Petitions, protest, marches - they don't work get a grip. PLEASE take a deep breath put your thinking cap on log and record all your thoughts about this abbatoir type it and then copy it take one copy to the abbatoir office ask to see the boss and then cooly place the copy down on the desk tell him your complaint first and then after he's listened or answered simply and calmly tell him this copy is for you theres another at home which will be used as evidence of my experice for the relevant bodies to examine thank you for your time goodbye. If the outcome is that no action is taken forward your copy on to anyone you can to exploit this person but at least you tried and if you take my advice and the result is positive and the individual in question is dealt with then you can hold your head high knowing you have solved a problem amicably and in doing so THUS: The person you have grievience with is dealt with , The abbatoir is dragged through the gutter, The owner keeps his business and finally the other workers who are blameless in this matter can retain employment and carry on paying their mortgages and feed their family.
Please note im not being nasty or unsympathetic before any do gooder slams me just looking at the whole and bigger picture!! I hope it all turns out ok for all parties

[smiffy]

gary, it is clear from eves account that this is a small, (and i now know very small) family run business, it is also clear that other members of staff whitnessed this behaviour and did not step in to prevent excess rough handling of the pigs.

I thank my lucky stars that the staff at my local abbatior are lovely caring people , who do a job most of us could not, and the vast majority of abbotiors are the same.

there is no excuse to scare animals when they enter a slaughterhouse or use a pig prodder, Its staff should have basic pig handling experience!!!

Now i do agree eve should write to the abbotior in question, but as a number of staff stood and watched this baffooon do you think anything will be done.

Also a pig should not be bruised when returned to a customer, i can only guess what happened there!!!

Now i am not wanting to get in to a debate, but we raise our animals with love and care and expect their final journey to be as stress less as in possible.

[Gary]

Thats the whole point of my rant speak with the abbatoir first if indeed as it may seem likely theres no justice then act through the channels but to just go off on a crusade all sense of reality just disappeared! The buising round the head is a common accurance as the pig once stunned and then bled out is put into a tank of extremely hot water to soften the bristles and then into a giant mechanical spinner where the body is scrapped with fast paddles to remove as many bristles as poss often two pigs will be spun at once resulting in collisions at speed whilst being spun...... This is not a defence for this slaughterhouse just one explaination of what could have caused the markings.

[shetlandpaul]

gary you seem to have it backwards. by treating these animals in such a way it clearly shows that they have major welfare issues, you say you had never witnessed this type of behaviour in 7 years. so what would this lead you to believe they behaved when the animals owners were not there. we must assume that his conduct must be the norm or his fellow workers would have stepped in. this example gives loads of ammo for the veggie set and the animal lib groups.

if we were seen treating our animals in such a way we would not get a letter from the witness. we would be up before the beak and very likely face a stonking fine or even jail. just because he is a slaughterman does not change this he is a criminal simples.

[Gary]

Im sorry ding dong looney land all get off!!!!!!!!!! I havent said anywhere in my posts (maybe you should read them again) that this man is innocent or his behaviour is acceptable im meerly saying that it is something that as an ex slaughterman I never had this problem and also as a business owner myself now I would like the chance to do something in house to punish this person and put in place something to prevent it happening again theres every chance that the owner is totally unaware that this is happening and unless you follow his every move you cant prove otherwise my posts werent to cause any offence or stir things up just a different angle to the rest of the flock

[shetlandpaul]

were not sheep huggers. if you don't relise that this guys activities are criminal then its probably just as well that your not working in the slaughterhouse. we have a lot of slaughtermen around us and they would be less than pleased to see their livestock treated in this way. you view to have a quite chat with the boss is just permiting this man to hide from his actions. the only way to insure it does not happen again is if they are inspected and subject to sanctions. this is the correct and proper way to deal with animal abuse.

[smiffy]

Gary i have had a lot of pigs slaughtered, and i always have the heads returned, the heads have never been bruised, the blood is gone from the body by the time they reach the dehairer, hence no bruising.

bruising would happen prior to death, before bleeding.

I have advised eve to write to the slaughterhouse in question, but i feel in this instance further action should also be taken.

Animal welfare at any place should be paramount, this inclusdes slaughter houses and livestock marts, last year i almost walled up a fella at our mart for raising his leg to my pig, he didnt make contact cos i shouted, touch that f***** pig and die, to the shock of people in the gangways, and trust me i would have welted him if he had made contact with my pig!!!!

I can not abide creulty in any form, just becouse we raise animals to eat does not mean they are less in stature than animals we keep as pets, they deserve to be treated with repect even at the end!!

[Gary]

jesus wept man what is your problem is it that im not in total agreeance to do goodderism or you cant handle rational trained thought In previous posts above I have condemend his behaviour and sympathised with the pigs owners I havent said one positive thing about this burke Maybe you should tell me what I should be saying as your obviously superior as im just an ex slaughterman. Why dont you forget replying and just read every post ive made on this subject and maybe just maybe i'll recieve an apology but i shant hold my breath as im guessing by your responses to my post would only make people assume that your judgement is doubtful. You say I think a QUIET chat with the boss is acceptable ? did you stop reading there? I carried on to say that if justice wasnt carried out then go through the correct channels. Thank god theres no war and you are placed with the responsabilty of captain you would have all your men jump the fence. Im sorry ive really tried to be polite but your rather provoking in your response I suppose in your mind i should be put in the stocks for arguing. SHEEPHUGGER thats a good one

[Gary]

Smiffy as ive said to this other chap there is nowhere in my posts where i justify animal cruelty my main concern as from the start of posts and to the end is if the owner is innocent in all this then why should he suffer and loose his livelyhood because someone cant behave ive stressed the slaughterman ought to be dealt with. anyone would think im a cult leader for the devil. I have my own business now breeding pigs and its something I take great pride in. I love my animals to death but i can see the both sides i suppose because i come from a slaughtering background and in my time there something like this beleive it or not would have been totally alien to me but if it had i could assure you that it would have been dealt with first in house and secondly through the correct channels meaning any innocent parties involved ie staff or owner could remain untarnished whilst the problem in this case a slughterman with a problem is sorted out. Surely that makes sense

[HappyHippy]

I've avoided posting until now because I'm just so shocked that this kind of behaviour still goes on today   It is sickening to think that all the time, care and money invested in our pigs means nothing to this man (or the loss of potential return custom or criminal charges) Yeah, fair enough write to the abbetior, but it's MY understanding that this is a small, family run business and surely it's going to have been obvious to everyone employed there that this is how he behaves all the time (especially if he has the nerve to stand there in front of customers and other staff and behave in this appalling manner) and nothing has been done before - I just don't think a letter of complaint is going to cut it somehow  
I agree with Gary on one point - a petition's not going to do anything. This company should be publicly named, animal health made aware and the vet who usually oversees things should be having serious questions asked of him.
They guys at my local abbetior couldn't be better (Wishaw abbetior, in case anyone's interested). Older, more experienced handlers who know what they're doing and will let the pig lead the way, reading it's body language and calmly moving it on. They respect the animals and know that it's the better man who can move them quietly and without fuss.
Smiffy, I'm hearing you......................if anyone even thought about lifting a foot to my pigs I'd have 'em too (and I'm a lover, not a fighter ) but they'd get to feel my size 8, steelie doc marten boot and see how they liked it lol!

[Eve]

Gary, clearly this is not the case of one bad apple, or management not being aware - it's a small family run business with their office on the side, other staff didn't intervene, the man who treated our pigs so brutally seems to have a lot to say there and is still working there now. Chances are he is one of the managers.
And with regards to this abattoir's reputation or finances: they should have thought of the consequences sooner, and we all have bills to pay.
So please calm down and stop having a go at us, we're not the ones in the wrong.


To all others: thankyou so much for your all your support and encouragement! Please do keep posting any further ideas or suggestions, and I will keep you up to date as well. As people mentioned earlier, I need to use my anger to take action - I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't.
I keep thinking "if only I had...", but even though I'm also a "touch my pig and die" kind of person and normally very quick to react, it came as such a surprise and I was so shocked that I just wasn't my normal self. Now, of course, I'm furious - how I wish I had grabbed that prodder and used it on that guy himself!
Thankyou so much!

Eve

[Mo]

Like Happyhippy, I've been following without comment. To be honest the whole thing has disturbed me but now things are going the way of so many sensitive posts on forums.

As always, we don't know the full story, we weren't there and more facts get revealed as the posting progresses.
Personally, I understand what Gary is saying and I also understand the reactions posted.

Reading back to the original post, Eve was perfectly happy with the abbatoir last year, so something must have changed over the year? If it is such a small, tight-knit family affair then what can have changed in the make-up? Where has the 'bad apple' come from and does he really have influence over the other workers? Or have the whole ethics of the place changed?
There are many questions that come out of what has been posted.

I'm sorry, Eve, but you say "clearly this is not the case of one bad apple, or management not being aware - it's a small family run business with their office on the side, other staff didn't intervene, the man who treated our pigs so brutally seems to have a lot to say there and is still working there now. Chances are he is one of the managers."
Haven't you spoken to anyone of authority at the abbatoir?

Whilst I can understand Eve's reaction at the time, the time to go to the owner/head honcho was straight away, or maybe the next day. I have to agree with Gary on this. The most efficient way of dealing with the problem is directly at it's source and whislt you can all argue about it being small and family run and no-one doing anything, we do not know for sure if the owner is aware of what is happening. He/she may be able to put things right. I know that doesn't excuse him from having allowed it to happen, but he may have been able to put a stop to it more quickly for future customers. Personally, I would have made him aware that I was obliged to report the treatment anyway but that I was making him aware of the situation - you can always tell me it's all very well to sit here and say that but, in effect, that's what we are all doing, except Eve.
No amount of "I would have's" are going to make her feel better (I am aware that I've added to that myself).

Meanwhile, the longer dicussions go on, the more pigs are going through the same hands.

I'm sorry, I've said way too much. I find the whole thing appalling.

Eve, nothing I have posted is personal, I'm sorry that you had this experience. Aside from all the personal reactions, there seems to be a lot of useful advice in the postings, I'm sorry that I have been unable to add any. Except perhaps to suggest that it might be worth trying to contact some of the other customers who were there, if you could. I would also suggest you find out more about the abbatoir. If you don't want to have contact with them, look up the business, find out who's who, that sort of thing.

[Gary]

Thank you Stevemo very refreshing, When i 1st saw this on the forum I was only intending on sending the one post I thought my 1st post was constructive and helpful and in no way offending sitting on the fence may be a way to put it but in a good way. I never once critisised eve or defended the slaughterman in fact my view expressed was just a logical way of seeing justice done rather than make alot of noise and cause more trouble than needed. And to my utter dismay there is one post in particular saying its "probably just as well your not working in the slaughterhouse anymore" its mindless comments like that which throws all sense out the window  sometimes I wonder whether some people really care what the subject is or they just see it as another post to take their tally up or they see it as a chance to jump on the band wagon and stand on a soap box.

1, Eve I hope your matter with the abbatoir is resolved
2, In future maybe posts should be read with attention, judged properly and then respond diplomatically( shetlandpaul this is mainly directed for you)
3, I hope that no one else has to go through this both with their animals and also when making a post on here as we are all equal and all entitled to are own opinions. once again thank you for your support and also rationable points stevemo

[chickenfeed]

  i hope we are not going to see another episode like we did a while back with the grange gary is entitled to his opinions no matter what they are. i hate t see posts that turn personal it takes away the strength of the topic and tuns into a free for all against the odd man/woman out.

[jdaley]

 I am only new hear, but I think people need to be mindful taht fredom of speech does not mean you can say anything you like.

There are norms to be met.
 Many people limit them selves when they speak in front of Granny, a new customer, a new partner. So there are self imposed limits.
 Also, even in the bar at a pub limits are imposed by the individuals within the premises.

So forums also can set limits, simply be standing up and saying something when the limit is reached.