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Author Topic: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?  (Read 11983 times)

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« on: May 20, 2018, 08:59:13 pm »
Am realising I need to set-up an irrigation system sooner rather than later.  Rules and reg's for mains-fed systems too onerous/expensive so has to be gravity-fed system not directly connected to mains supply.  In anticipation, I have 4x IBCs for distribution around fields:  IBCs to be filled from mains water and/or rain-water capture.  (Still a whole load of reg's to comply with, but easier/cheaper to comply.) 
The IBCs will always have a couple metres 'head' to feed the system/s over sloping plots. 
I can't "plumb" all plantings permanently so need something that is flexible/movable so that I can give respite to various plantings on rotation.
I have started looking at gravity-fed systems ont' web, but I am none the wiser about whether I can meet my needs:  standard horti' drip-line systems too inflexible for me and wondering whether there is something else (even a "micro" irrigation system).  I'm thinking to irrigate perhaps 10m x 10m minimum at one time from any one IBC, before moving an IBC/system to another 10x10m plot. (Ability to drip-irrigate larger than 10x10m from 1 cubic metre IBC with, say, 2m head over a sloping plot would be a bonus.)
Any knowledge/experience would be most gratefully received.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 09:07:30 pm by arobwk »

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 09:29:04 pm »
If the plantings will generally follow the same spacings then apart from the nuisance of moving all the pipework a drip system should be feasible. 55yrs ago i did a short stint in tomato greenhouses and each plant was drip fed via thin pvc tubing and a nozzle. I'm guessing the initial setup is tedious adjusting all those nozzles to give the same outputs with the flow resistances along the tube but if your iBC is to one side and you setup a distribution across the bed centre from a larger diameter tube then you have the flexibility to plug the side distros in different orders for different beds and each is only 5M long...

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2018, 05:02:01 pm »
[member=16228]pgkevet[/member]  - Thanks and is this (attached sketch) roughly what you were thinking?  Wide-bore spine, with micro-bore branches up to 5 metres.   

I'm not too worried about fast flow rates - any sort of trickle, over however many hours to give a reasonable dosing, would be better than nothing. 

If you can remember, pgkevet, what sort of diameter spine piping were they using and over what sort of area?


Maysie

  • Joined Jan 2018
  • Herefordshire/Shropshire Border
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2018, 05:40:06 pm »
I have a Claber drip system which was in use at our last house, fed from the mains supply, so its drip rate was set up to deal with pressure of around 1-1.5bar, which is around 10-15m of head.  Whatever system of pipes/drippers you use will need to be adjustable to make sure that you can give some plants more and some less, otherwise the drippers at the end of the dripper line will be parched and the ones nearest the supply will be drowned.  This will hopefully then also allow you to open the drippers up a bit to deal with the comparatively low pressures of 2m head (0.2bar). 

HTH

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2018, 06:05:56 pm »
[member=16228]pgkevet[/member]  - Thanks and is this (attached sketch) roughly what you were thinking?  Wide-bore spine, with micro-bore branches up to 5 metres.   

I'm not too worried about fast flow rates - any sort of trickle, over however many hours to give a reasonable dosing, would be better than nothing. 

If you can remember, pgkevet, what sort of diameter spine piping were they using and over what sort of area?
That's what i had in mind as an idea for you. The greenhouse I worked in was at least 1/4 acre and all i recall is the thin tubing snaking along the tomato rows with nozzles for each - probably from overhead distribution pipes but there has to have been a header tank somewhere for the feed to be mixed in. It's a long time go and the most vivid memory is the sticky rubbish from the tomato leaves that covered me from head to toe by the end of a shift pruning off the lower leaves and axial shoots.
pgk

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 06:35:33 pm »
I have a Claber drip system ...

I'll check out Claber web-site,  Ta

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2018, 09:26:35 pm »
We have no mains water so when we first moved here we set up a 'leaky hose' system (not the same as drip feed), fed by 1000 l barrel on a raised plinth.  Water went through a normal size garden hose, with stubs of leaky hose to about 6-8' long running off for each row.  Each stub had its own tap and was moved as necessary.  The tank was kept full from a system of other collecting barrels under every available roof, and a water pump.  There were no regulations involved at all.
This system worked extremely well for about three years, but because of the relatively low water pressure the tiny leaky bits in the hose blocked with soil and algae.  We could have flushed them through with a pressure washer but didn't have one at the time.  Now we use a system of watering cans and garden hose plus an awful lot of time, so we are ready to invent a new system any time now.  Ideally we would have a water tank on a pylon tall enough to give us mains pressure equivalent.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

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Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2018, 09:35:55 pm »
We have rainwater collection from our (very large) barn roof, into IBCs, and found we didn't have the pressure on gravity fed to push the water out of the leaky hose system in our polytunnel.  So we are putting in an electric pump (which will be driven by our solar energy) and are going to make our own watering system, using a more rigid pipe as I understand it.  Most of this thread is over my head, so I am going to pass a link to it to the people here who are working on our system!

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 10:08:34 pm »
I have come across these folk during my web searches - [edit]  https://www.tankfedirrigation.com/drip-irrigation-kits
I'm in the middle of emailing them now seeking comment on adaptability for my needs.  (In particular, they don't seem to have figured-in options for connections to IBCs!)
They basically offer standardized kits in different sizes for various numbers of "plants" or "shrubs" or veg-type plots rather than a long list of system components for you to pick and choose from, but I shall also be testing them about mod's/alternatives/extras.
Interesting find (I think), but I wouldn't wish to comment (yet) on VFM, as I haven't worked out what any other systems would cost from a "parts list".  For those who have already done those sums, I offer a couple of example tankfedirrigation kit prices - 60 shrub kit (to 72 sq m) £185;  300 plant kit (veg-type irrigation to 83 sq m) £295.

Anyone actually bought one of their kits by any chance?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 10:18:53 pm by arobwk »

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 07:24:16 pm »
Quick update on "tankfedirrigation" (aka Liquid Lever Irrigation Ltd) for anyone who might be interested. 
They do have an extra fitting for their 4-way manifold (latter included in some of their kits), which, with an IBC outlet adapter provided by others, enables connection of the manifold to an IBC outlet.  Great! 
Also, I understand they are planning to offer an on-line "parts list" idc for those wishing to modify their kits to meet specific needs.  Again, great!
I am going to give their system/s a try with a "tester" order.
(And - [member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] - there are bulk-order discounts, but I don't know yet what %age discounts are on offer by size of order.)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 08:16:58 pm by arobwk »

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 11:44:53 pm »
See if any of this post is any good to you .. I got a bit carried away :roflanim:

Top filling IBC with a good seating &  sealing lid or a fully sealing & seating screw lidded juice tank ?

 Put a standard  high pressure bicycle valve stem & valve  in the lid use inner tube to make th rubber sealing washers as well as using a big metal or thick plastic washer inside & out to seal the rubber washers to the valve  stem . Then pump up the tank with  a few PSi of compressed air from a decent sized 12v DC or 240 volt AC compressor etc.

 Put in a simple hose connection outlet with a tap fitting at the bottom of the tank .
Perhaps use string pushed in from the outside of the hole tie off the string at the outside of the tank end , so you don't pull it all through into the tank  :innocent:. Once you have plenty of string inside the tank, pull it up with a long bit of hooked wire ,  slide the outlet fitting over it. Remembering  to fit the first sealing washer to the outlet union at this point. Now let it slide down the string so you can pull the fittings neck out through the plastic side wall .  slip on the other sealing washer then the nut . Once you've tightened the securing nut fit a 1/2" adaptor to the thread of the union .

Then you can run some Antelco  micro spray heads off the half inch main line … down to 6 mm branch lines out to  a max of 12 micro spray heads off each half inch line .

 These spray heads can spray up to 3 litres of water over a circle of 3 mtr dia per minute . or 2 litres per min if you use 180 degree arc spray heads.
 

If you use a Hoselock AC1 battery operated water time clock you can set the water to run at night when things won't evaporate so quickly .
 
 It was my mate  who lived in the middle of nowhere who set up the pressurized  two mtr tall by about 1200 mm dia ex fruit juice , now rain water barrels . He had three 30 foot x 18 foot polytunnels being irrigated by them and a dozen or more Antelco  variable misting sprays  over some of his veg plot  .
   

I've tried all manner of drippers & spray heads in the last 13 years . I reckon I must have spent five or six hundered pounds on useless stuff before I started to use Antelco products. 
Nothing I know of can beat the Antelco gear , nothing at all .
It weathers well too , wrt. ultra violet & infra red light ,  most of my spray heads & tubing is / are over six years old .

Hose lock tubing is not very good , for some reason the wall thickness is about half of what it needs to be.
 My water is now supplied from the mains ...it complies with byelaw 94 .. the copper pipe work straight after the stop cock is fitted with an approved  brass anti syphon device that also has a self closing piston that shuts off the water if the water in the pipe is suddenly allowed to flow unrestricted at full mains pressure .  ( £ 7.80 ish )


 Check out eBay item number 262990524514:

Antelco vari jet adjustable volume  180 degrees coverage

 Get your neoprene pipe work& connectors etc . from them as well if at all possible .

 Over the years , especially in my glass house , I've found that I needed to use some 8 mm copper gas pipe to make small 18 mm long sleeves to fit over the 6 mm neoprene tubing at the take off spigots & where the head assembley goes into the tube .  So when it gets hot ,  any great pressure in the softened neoprene rubber line does not force the joints apart .
 It took ages & ages to  cut & debur the 150 or so copper tubing sleeves and everso slightly turn one end in to a very slight flare using a dot punch & a block of hard wood with a small hole drilled in it to take the tip of the punch as it went into the sleeve .

 Currently I have six hanging basket and six plant tubs irrigating off one  1/2" branch line &  eight vertical spray heads off another branch line off the same water clock using a brass Y splitter that has individual on off taps out to each branch  line .

 A veg garden run of twelve 180 degree adjustable ( blue top )  spray heads for the veg beds .
 In the glasshouse there are twenty six variable spray or misting heads running off a water clock again using a Y splitter set up , . these are on eight foot long 6 mm end lines so some can reach into the middle of the glasshouse to irrigate plants in pots & tubs set out on up to five stainless steel  wheeled  kitchen trolleys. (These beat fixed glass house staging every time.)

Finally another 15 vari jet 180 spray heads or vertical misting spray jets ,  off a time clock & Tee  to keep our 60 or so bonsai watered several times aday through the hotter weather . 

If the weather forecast is for rain I simply walk out & turn off all the outside water timing clocks , turning them on again when strong sun or prolonged dry windy weather is forecast . 

 instead of using the expensive to buy approved push in the ground plastic mounting stalks to fit the raised spray heads to , I've used  three small tents worth ( 30 plus? ) of 400 mm long x 8 or 6 mm carbon fibre tent poles & taped the  spray head on close to the top of each of the pole .
Some of the tent poles have ben used one in the other to make even taller poles .
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 01:15:05 am by cloddopper »
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 09:55:45 pm »
I found your post most interesting reading [member=28519]cloddopper[/member] - I'm sure others will too - thank you.  (I'm saving it for future reference along with many of your other knowledgeable advisory posts.)
Tip about pressurizing tank is real good especially for fairly level ground - it's an "obvious" solution to getting more supply pressure, but it hadn't actually occurred to me!
I checked out Antelco after your post.  Prices for their bits and pieces seem quite reasonable (although I can't remember, right now, which supplier web-site I checked prices on):  in rough order, an Antelco bits & pieces system would be very roughly equivalent in £s to tfi's prices for drip-feed.  Add in sprinkler/spray heads (as opposed to drippers) and cost of a "tyre-pump" pressurised Antelco sprinkler system starts to grow, as one might expect.  However, not extortionately IMO and I shall consider for the future:  right now though, for my immediate (starter option) purposes, I'm going to go with the "dripper" option from tfi, but I will definitely keep your advice in mind for any future (sprinkler) irrigation for seedling beds.
 :)


« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:58:27 pm by arobwk »

cloddopper

  • Joined Jun 2013
  • South Wales .Carmarthenshire. SA18
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 11:55:12 pm »
My experience of gravity fed drippers that have either serrated seepage discs or diaphragm discs in the dripper is not good I threw out about £70 worth of new unused ones and its associated piping .
The drippers soon get blocked , so I suggest & get hold of a fine brass wire " proggler " & a tooth brush to keep the holes & discs  clear / clean  .

If you are using a raised tank to supply the water you will need a decent quality micro fine filter at the tank outlet .  You'll also find that a green or brown slime grows well in the pipe work in 15 oC weather if you are using every day full of bacteria cleaned rainwater . 
Strong belief , triggers the mind to find the way ... Dyslexia just makes it that bit more amusing & interesting

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2018, 12:57:50 am »
... If you are using a raised tank to supply the water you will need a decent quality micro fine filter at the tank outlet .  You'll also find that a green or brown slime grows well in the pipe work in 15 oC weather if you are using every day full of bacteria cleaned rainwater . 
System is filtered and, supposedly, as clog-free (or de-cloggable) as can be.  Most interested though in your comment about temperatures and pipe-work slime:  TFI do, apparently, offer white "run cool" pipework so I shall ask whether I can have that instead of black pipework. 


arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Gravity fed irrigation - any thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2018, 05:09:08 pm »
Order placed!  Liquid Lever's on-line shop basically offers standard kits, but they were quite happy to meet a bespoke order which I based around their 300 Plant Kit, but with all plain distribution hose (to replace their pre-punched hose) and added in a few other bits.  This included their custom reducing bush to enable four-way tank outlet manifold to be connected to an IBC adapter with a 1.5" BSP female outlet.
I went with their white hose to help reduce heat gains - it'll dirty up in due course, but hopefully still be visable enough to avoid the trip hazard or inadvertant slicing with the Mantis.
Couple of interesting finds while looking into all of this:
Firstly - an IBC "swivel buttress" which ensures that any connected item can be re-orientated correctly (e.g. a tap or, in my case, tank outlet manifold) after it's been fully screwed in.
Secondly - Fitt NTS Wintech Hose at Screwfix - 50m with 1/2" bore for (presently) £25:  it is UV protected and has a black anti-algae layer plus, from further research, seemingly no heavy-metal contaminants.  I haven't bought any yet so cannot vouch for its advertised anti-kink properties etc, but thinking I might try out a coil:  compared to Fitt NTS prices elsewhere, the Screwfix price is a bit of a steal.

[Edit:  so much so that I just pressed the Screwfix click and collect button!]
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 05:51:54 pm by arobwk »

 

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