[Bright Raven]

Dear friends,

Tagging......and the novice, who has been to the DEFRA website but is still very confused. What do I need in the following circumstances.
1. 4 year old (Dai) yew arrived with one tag only and two lambs at foot. I will keep her for as long as I can as breeding yew.

2. Dai's yew lamb  (Lizzy) now 7 months old, one tag only. I want to keep this lovely yew as breeding stock. (plus two others ewes from same flock)
3. Dai's ram lamb (Ross) now 7 months old, one tag only. Poor lad is due for vasectomy in October. I removed the ram's single tag on welfare grounds yesterday as it had pulled through and become crusty and weepy. I have sprayed it and it is healing nicely. Now without any tag.

4. Possibly unregistered ram lamb arriving next week with no tag at all, hopefully he will be the daddy tup of future meat stocks. If he does have a tag what should it be and what does he need?

Sorry to be such a dunce:
As I understand it all these sheep need to be double tagged now in red - one EID one flock ID.
Have I got this right? I had a conversation with what sounded like "work experience boy" from local animal welfare who told me that I could not re-designate animals with a single tag - destined for slaughter under one year, unless they had lost their tags.  This seems crazy!
Perhaps he was right but, he did not have the answers I needed and did not fill me with any confidence.

[shetlandpaul]

i maybe wrong but the 4 year old should have had two normal tags. the lambs should have had an eid and a normal one. if you want to be a little naughty stick yours on the lambs. i take it the castrate to be will be going for meat. your feed merchant should be able to advice you better than the yts kid.

[supplies for smallholders]

Sorry to say this but the yts kid was right in so much as:

All sheep MUST be tagged from the holding of birth.

ALL sheep born after Jan 1st that are to live beyond 12 months MUST be tagged with an EID tag - from the holding of Birth

ALL sheep going to slaughter prior to 12 months of age must be tagged with either an EID tag or a non EID batch / Slaughter tag - again from the holding of birth.

You cannot (legally) upgrade a non eid tagged sheep to an EID tag of your own.

Im sorry to say this but taking unregistered / untagged animals is wrong and makes a mockery of traceability in the event of desease outbreak for the sake of a few pence or £1 for an EID tag.

Probably not the answer you wanted, but these are the facts as they stand at the moment.

Cabn you not get the supplier to properly tag them? as he is breaking the law by selling them untagged.

Thanks

[shetlandpaul]

i agree it should have been done properly. but they were not  so at the moment he is stuck with them its better that they have a tag of some sort than none. as a quess any meat will be home used so there really is not a proper food chain issue. as you know they could not be bothered sending out clear instructions to flock owners so there is going to be lots of this over the next few years. it would have been simpler to have said that they all needed tagging with an eid.

[Bright Raven]

Thanks for your thoughts good people.

You are so right, there are bound to be lots of people like me now with stock that legally is classified wrongly.
I am a total novice sheep keeper, Tim Tyne Sheep Book in one hand, best intentions in my head, but still making all the mistakes because I am on the learning curve.

I need to upgrade all the stock. The farmer I brought the sheep from is not internet savvy, I guess he was still tagging to the original information. He knew I was keeping the animals as breeding stock. I suppose he is in the dark about the changes too.

All the sheep mentioned will stay with me on my little smallholding. Traceability is not an issue because they will only end up on my table.
Next year's lambs - now that is different, I can get things in order from the outset.

Meantime....... What should I do If I cannot upgrade the stock? ..... Legally and under the table suggestions please.

[Bright Raven]

I have just had a really helpful conversation on the National EID Helpline phone number. It seems I can upgrade the sheep but not the tag.
Simply all I have to do is cut out all the first tags (apart from the 4 year old who is fine) and replace with red double tags. Just keep all the info in my movement book.

[shetlandpaul]

don't the red tags cause problems at the slaughter house. another question if we don't get the single farm payment what could they do if you refused to eid.

[Anke]

If you keep the red tagged ones as breeding stock you will be fine.

And yes 4 year old ewe - single tag only is correct.

[Bright Raven]

It would be helpful if DEFRA could produce a simple flow chart that goes through the scenario's of what tag for what circumstance so the pathways could be clearly understood. I am thinking of the sort of flowcharts we did at school for "Make A Cup Of Tea" or design a system that..... in tech lessons.

[hexhammeasure]

that would be a complicated chart if it was to cover the variations in the lives of sheep, the variations in the methods of shepherding and the variations in the disasters that arise for everything else...

[Bright Raven]

There must be some bright spark who could create a question driven, yes, no computer program that would get you to the right tag?

[hexhammeasure]

certainly there will be now lets find a hero that knows all the questions....

[Bright Raven]

as long as we don't get the answer 42. Bless old Douglas Adams - I can see a scenario for Dirk Gently with an answer that is interconnected with the fine tuning of the universe..., or perhaps the world according to DEFRA who I shall from now call The Vogons.

[Freddiesfarm]

DEFRA have done a flow chart in their EID Advice booklet which was issued to sheep keepers in January 2010 and promptly thrown out in the recycling!!

It does explain the colours and the upgrading, best bet would be to look on the DEFRA website or ask the EID helpline to send you a copy.

On a final note: Bright Raven - Never be afriad to ask, there are hoards of people on these forums with helpful advise and experience not to mention any local sheep farmers in your area - I have 200 ewes and still bounce ideas off my sheep guru man, not to mention googling and tackling the forums for help hints!  My view is it is better to ask and look follish, than to stay silent and harm an animal by lack of experience.

[garden cottage]

weve electronic tagged our lambs this year, thought id mention what a crap design they are and very expensive, plus £20.00 rip off for new applicator gun, one end of the tags is like a golf tee and very easy to pull through.................................