[Buttermilk]

Womble have you looked at AHDB  better returns programme  "ewe nutrition "

Surely for himself Womble needs ram nutriton?

[Backinwellies]

Womble have you looked at AHDB  better returns programme  "ewe nutrition "

Surely for himself Womble needs ram nutriton?

or wether ? 

[Womble]

or wether ? 

LOL, I'm pleased to report that I have now made a full recovery! 

Womble have you looked at AHDB  better returns programme  "ewe nutrition "

I tried it, but I just found I couldn't digest that much grass.

Seriously though, Do you mean this one, Shep? No, I haven't seen that version before. I'll have a read in a bit - thanks! 

[Foobar]

I would agree that smallholders shouldn't be demonised - there are plenty of sh*t farmers out there too alas.   If I followed what my neighbour farmer does all my sheep would probably be dead.

I have hay out from October (or Sept if wet) to May - I let the sheep tell me what they need.

The Eblex docs are brill, I've read 'em all .  Animal Health should make every new livestock owner aware of that resource when they sign up for a flock number or CPH.

[Fleecewife]

Thank you Foobar - you put the point so much more succinctly than I managed 

[Badger Nadgers]

Will also add that the best laid plans can change because of the weather. Sheep round here are losing condition fast due to all the rain we’ve had 

Same here, but this year it's been losing condition at the end of a wet summer rather than a couple of years ago when they lost condition fast during the wet and windy November.    The other thing that's knocked them back here has been several 180 degree changes of wind direction (sometimes more, or and back again) within a day, perhaps more evident here as I'm on a hill running NE-SW, and they get themselves settled on the more sheltered side which gradually becomes the more exposed.  It just needs them to think about sitting it out rather than checking out the others side and they'll burn energy.  When it happens overnight and is combined with wintery weather it's lethal - they're all settled at night but by the morning they're getting plastered.  The ewes tend to cope okay as they have more reserves, but the hoggets going throught their first winter can drop really quick (within a day) and it's a lot easier to take condition off than put it on.  First sign of anything and it's throw food at them or it's too late for them to recover from.

[Womble]

Yup, I've seen four dead sheep in our neighbour's fields within the past week. They just seem to be losing the will to live, and I can't blame them!

I figure ours are more likely to hang on in there in the hope of getting something nice for breakfast, so I'm going to grit my teeth and feed them, at least as long as I still think they're over-thin!

[Backinwellies]

Yup, I've seen four dead sheep in our neighbour's fields within the past week. They just seem to be losing the will to live, and I can't blame them!

So am I !!

Mud mud water and mud ...  and when it isn't raining its foggy! 

My ewes are going In the barn next week (eight weeks before lambing) if I can get them dry enough to house!

[janeh]

Although this is an important post, I wonder if there are better ways to put across this information. You would have to hope that the "novice smallholders" in question aren't on this forum and seeing their case details posted on a public forum such as this, even if names aren't mentioned. Mentioning someone's case details and aiming the post at smallholders, is not needed to make this point.

I agree with what the fleecewife says in that vets are in a position of trust, and also it is unfair to label all smallholders as targets for this because as some have mentiuoned, this scenario happens on farms of all sizes and I bet you could go onto moorland rough grazing and find this exact same thing.

Are there many smallholders who ask "Dr Google" how to look after our sheep, and who really believe it's ok for our sheep to be a bag of bones? The tone of this message could be improved.

[Me]

You could argue that in putting the point insensitively more attention was drawn to the post and it was more effective

[Dans]

I'll have a look at the Better Returns Programme booklet. I have to admit as novice I'm a bit bewildered by sheep nutrition. We have now learnt how to tell good hay from bad and give our sheep hard feed when it gets cold. They seem to be maintaining condition based on my ability to BCS (which I don't have the greatest faith in).

Can some sheep just be 'poor do-ers' though? We have a ram lamb from 2017 who has never done well. He's always been small, 2nd twin who 2 hours after birth still hadn't got up (had to tip mum and latch him in the end). He fed from her as a lamb but she had little interest in him. He was the first scouring bum we had. He eats and drinks fine and is feisty, but has never had a great score. I'm getting a FEC done to check but just wondered if some individuals are just 'thinner'. Our top ewe also seems to maintain a slightly lower (.5) BCS to the others.

Dans

[Marches Farmer]

Within a breed there will be different "strains" or bloodlines that keep condition better.  Much the same as people, some are like whippets and others like whipped cream.  I think it's really important to feed correctly in the last six weeks of pregnancy and the first month or so of lactation, for feed is going into healthy, vigorous lambs or milk for said lambs.

[Ermingtrude]

Within a breed there will be different "strains" or bloodlines that keep condition better.  Much the same as people, some are like whippets and others like whipped cream.  I think it's really important to feed correctly in the last six weeks of pregnancy and the first month or so of lactation, for feed is going into healthy, vigorous lambs or milk for said lambs.

Goodness, there is no hope for me. I am very white, and a bit flabby. I appear to be cream. I was hoping for more of the whippet look - long thin legs, pronounced waist line, slender hips....ah well. 

This place is fabulous for information - many hours spent reading old topics, as well as ordering the various recommended books, have given me lots of help in setting up a small breeding flock, and keeping the elderly lawnmowers healthy for their last years. I do agree with the breed / type thing though - I have a few Zwartbles that look like dining tables regardless of what the grass is doing, and one little wether that gets the best of everything, and extras. and all the worming/teeth checks etc needed, and is still the lower end of the BS. He runs and plays, doesn't stop eating, and hasn't had any issues, but seems to be built like a racing snake.

[Penninehillbilly]

'Although this is an important post, I wonder if there are better ways to put across this information. You would have to hope that the "novice smallholders" in question aren't on this forum and seeing their case details posted on a public forum such as this, even if names aren't mentioned. Mentioning someone's case details and aiming the post at smallholders, is not needed to make this point.'
[/size]It's a shame people are nitpicking at OP, I haven't seen any names mentioned, and I just saw the post as a very GOOD timely reminder to keep checking condition. If anyone did recognise themselves (unlikely) hopefully it would make them look at their flock management urgently. The chart was very useful as well, while I have grass in the lower field, I am giving more hay following this post, thanks again for all the positive advice.

[pharnorth]

Agree with [member=22672]penninehillbilly[/member]   Feels like we are falling into the trap of over sensitivity  that marrs much of the 'media'. The case as described wasn't detailed it was pretty generic and it is the very fact that it was generic that makes it a general point worth sharing.