[Terry T]

We took on 3 hebridean wethers over summer, our first sheep.
We still have plenty of grass but I have caught them nibbling straw from time to time and wondered if they might need extra feed over winter.
If there is plenty of length on the grass, do they still need some extra hay?  I'd hate for them to be hungry but suspect they are just greedy. A few pointers welcome.
Oh and we are in Norfolk - grass may grow all winter.

[Old Shep]

If there's plenty of grass eg say 3 inches and longer, they will be fine.  Sheep sometimes like straw especially if its good straw.  In winter when there's snow on the ground or very hard frosts they would need some hay.  Some hard feed is handy to keep them tame (can you tame hebs??) but they won't need very much at all.  Make sure its suitable for wethers as ewe feed can give wethers urinary calci-somethings (stones).


Enoy your first sheepies!

[Terry T]

Thankyou, that's really helpful.
They are very tame, lovely... and come running when they see us so we are using a few "general purpose nuts" to keep them happy, just a handful between them a day. Will buy some hay in for frosty days, haven't had lying snpw since we moved to Norfolk 3 years ago.

[zwartbles]

You just missed it then Terry T !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sunny, snowy Norfolk 2016!!!!!!!

[Terry T]

Oooh, maybe the snow just missed us?  The rain often does....I'll hope for more this year.

[Fleecewife]

Yes you can tame Hebs Old Shep.  They don't deserve the rep they sometimes get.  If they are handled roughly then they are sensible enough to want to avoid humans, but treat them gently and they're soft as any.


TerryT - wethers shouldn't need much extra feeding at all.  A handful of hard feed a day is too much between three - they'll get fat.  Don't feed them ewe pencils or any ewe feed. A tiny sprinkle of tup coarse mix is plenty, every second day (psychological theory says intermittent reinforcement of desired behaviour, ie taming them, is more effective than rewarding them every time.)


The snow in zwartbles pic is thin enough (less than 20cm) that Hebs can easily scrape down through it to the grass below. They won't be getting much nutrition from winter grass, so a small amount of hay should be plenty.  If they demolish what you give them in seconds flat, then they are hungry and need more.  Hebs are never greedy - they know what they need and take only that much (unless it's hard feed in which case they can't judge so easily).  Don't forget that they love some leaves or branches in winter for vits and minerals.  Willow, apple and so on is fine, but not evergreens or things they don't rush for.

[zwartbles]

I meant 2013 of course!!!!!!!!!!

We have had -11c overnight on a fairly regular basis in the winters and we are on clay so the ground is pretty cold and wet and the grass doesn't grow for us until early March/April.

From the little I know of Hebrideans I would think they would just shrug at stuff like that. I'm sure that they would love some hay though!

[Terry T]

Thanks everyone, that's really helpful. I'll cut down on the nuts, Fleecewife, which are not for ewes but general purpose for cows and sheep. I'm amazed that a handful would be too many, it seems like v few - they do share them with my terrier cross who refuses her food but loves nuts and layers pellets!
I will feed them willow and other branches overwinter. I'm looking forward to them stripping bark of the wood I fell this year. I hear they like ivy too which we have plenty of.
Sounds like you have a cold spot Zwartbles, I don't yhink we went below -6 last year.

[twizzel]

Normally cattle feed can't be fed to sheep due to copper levels so double check that these nuts are ok for sheep. A good safe mix is Badminton Pedigree sheep mix, suitable for ewes, lambs and rams. Not overly cheap compared to Normal nuts but a bag should last a good while.

[Fleecewife]

Or Carr's of Billington Champion Tup, which is the same as their old 'Tup & Lamb' coarse mix.


I agree about the copper in cattle feed - not suitable for sheep.


Calling all knowledgeable folk with good memories who can remember what it is in ewe feed which causes urinary calculi in male sheep.  We need to put it in a sticky as the question frequently comes up, and our communal brain always seems to fail the lot of us TASers.  It is important, as calculi will block the male urethra and stop the bladder draining. The bladder will eventually burst and kill the sheep - not a nice way to go.

[twizzel]

It's ammonium chloride included in feeds suitable for rams and male lambs so guess that's what's not included in ewe nuts ?

[davet]

Calling all knowledgeable folk with good memories who can remember what it is in ewe feed which causes urinary calculi in male sheep. 

Oh, I must admit I just thought it was calcium.  I kept the ram away from sugar beet pellets because they have calcium in.
So, the sugar beet pellets might be ok for him?

[Fleecewife]

It's ammonium chloride included in feeds suitable for rams and male lambs so guess that's what's not included in ewe nuts ?

I found this:


<<< Several factors contribute to the development of urinary calculi, most relating to a narrow calcium to phosporus ratio. In feedlot lambs, this ratio should be approximately 2:1. Lambs are often fed very high levels of concentrate relative to roughage. Concentrates are generally high in phosphorus relative to calcium, so that calcium-phosphorus ratios of 1:1 are not unusual.>>>


<<< The most important preventive measure is to have a proper calcium-phosphorus ratio of approximately 2:1 in the diet. Chemical analysis of the ration, especially in the forage in the ration, is advisable so the proper levels of calcium can be fed. Calcium levels are easily increased by the addition of calcium carbonate (limestone) to the ration. Acidification of the urine of lambs prevents the formation of most urinary calculi. This is accomplished by the addition of 0.5 percent ammonium chloride to the ration. Ammonium sulfate in slightly higher amounts will also satisfactorily acidify the urine.>>>


This is in: Sheep Health Fact Sheet No.3- Urinary Calculi (Water Belly)https://www.thejudgingconnection.com/pdfs/Urinary_Calculi.pdf
There's lots of other stuff if you google 'causes of urinary calculi in male sheep.

Have a look at this too: http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/general/urinary-calculi/

[SallyintNorth]

It's ammonium chloride included in feeds suitable for rams and male lambs so guess that's what's not included in ewe nuts ?

I found this:


<<< Several factors contribute to the development of urinary calculi, most relating to a narrow calcium to phosporus ratio. In feedlot lambs, this ratio should be approximately 2:1. Lambs are often fed very high levels of concentrate relative to roughage. Concentrates are generally high in phosphorus relative to calcium, so that calcium-phosphorus ratios of 1:1 are not unusual.>>>


<<< The most important preventive measure is to have a proper calcium-phosphorus ratio of approximately 2:1 in the diet. Chemical analysis of the ration, especially in the forage in the ration, is advisable so the proper levels of calcium can be fed. Calcium levels are easily increased by the addition of calcium carbonate (limestone) to the ration. Acidification of the urine of lambs prevents the formation of most urinary calculi. This is accomplished by the addition of 0.5 percent ammonium chloride to the ration. Ammonium sulfate in slightly higher amounts will also satisfactorily acidify the urine.>>>


This is in: Sheep Health Fact Sheet No.3- Urinary Calculi (Water Belly)https://www.thejudgingconnection.com/pdfs/Urinary_Calculi.pdf
There's lots of other stuff if you google 'causes of urinary calculi in male sheep.

Have a look at this too: http://www.heygatesfeeds.co.uk/general/urinary-calculi/

:bookmark: feeds and urinary calculi in rams and wethers

[Fleecewife]

Thanks Sally