NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Copper supplements  (Read 2483 times)

angie

  • Joined Jul 2016
Copper supplements
« on: September 27, 2017, 10:54:24 pm »
Hi the calf mix that I give my girls has reduced the copper content by fifty percent,(also changed the recipe so dam refusing to eat it)  What copper supplements does everyone else give their goats?
They have a salt lick, should I also give them a mineral lick, if so any recommendations on what type/brand?

Planning on getting caprivite mineral supplement from GN

They are golden Guernsey

Angie
Voss Electric Fence

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 06:52:21 am »
I use copper bolus, did a lot of research on the subject.
We also give caprivite and licks but some goats ignore the licks anyway.
They have been on bolus  since May and  you can see the difference in coats,hoofs
Added bonus effective in control of barge pole worms.

Recommended dose 4gram bolus for adult goat every 3 months
I use 2 gram x 2 then you can give same to kids over three months x1
Rubber tube on end of drench gun with water to administer
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 06:57:03 am by mart6 »

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 01:01:21 pm »
It very much depends on where you are, what your soil nutrients and inhibitors are and what the goats are eating.

Whilst goats need copper, it is possible to overdose them in some circumstances which is also a problem.  Sheep generally do not need copper.  However, in my area, the molybdenum ties up what copper there is; so much so that the vets will routinely copper bolus Beltex sheep!!!  Their colleagues in other parts of the UK are horrified by the very thought of such actions.

Best to talk to your vet about ground conditions in your area if you haven't had soil analysis done on the land you're using. 

Horses have similar digestive needs to goats therefore horse feeds may be a suitable alternative, but it also depends on how much you're pushing the milk as you may need to supplement for that.

Some people say goats don't use licks, others say they use them when they want them.  I have Himalayan salt licks hanging for free access and someone is using them although not at a great pace.  I also have red and yellow rockies which don't seem to be used.  I'll occasionally put out a horslyx - usually every couple of months and I usually get either breathe easy or garlic.  That gets some use before being abandoned (at which point it goes to the horses to finish off).  Prior to kidding I put molasses rollerball licks in and again they get use but only seem interested shortly before and after kidding, the rest of the time it's been ignored so I tend only to put them in around kidding time now.

I occasionally add seaweed, turmeric and powdered coconut or linseed oil.  Other than that mine don't get supplements beyond what is in their feed (Organic cattle and goat pellets and smallholder mix, plus dried grass/alfalfa).

One of my Bagot girls had triplets this year (they're supposed to have singles) and I was concerned that she would turn into a hat rack overnight and not manage to raise them.  I put her onto a handful of Dodson & Horrell Build Up Conditioning Mix twice a day.  She has not only reared the 3 (one of which was premature) without me having to supplement, she's managed to put on weight whilst doing so and is looking in lovely (if a bit plump) condition with the kids now at 12 weeks of age.

If you're going to go with a mineral lick, it's often worth talking to your local agri supplier and using their own brand.  It's often formulated specifically with the known deficiencies for the area factored in.  However, ask to speak to their nutritionist in advance, explain it's for goats, confirm they understand the differences between cattle, goats and sheep needs and get their advice on which is best for your needs.

I hope this helps!
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

angie

  • Joined Jul 2016
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 10:24:27 am »
Thank you both for your information and advice Scarlett Dragon and mart, very helpful.
Will get in touch with our vet for their opinion as well.

Angie

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 11:52:26 am »
Large areas of the UK are low in copper



You may find this useful 2nd link you can put postcode in for a better view

http://www.ukso.org/nsi/Copper.html

http://mapapps2.bgs.ac.uk/ukso/home.html?layer=NSICopper
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 11:54:50 am by mart6 »

angie

  • Joined Jul 2016
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 02:13:32 pm »
Thank you mart 6 very helpful
Looking good for copper content where we are

Angie

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 05:20:07 pm »
The map is only England and Wales....as always....

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

roddycm

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2018, 11:06:46 pm »
I know this is an old post but thought I would ask where people buy their copper boluses. I will be in the UK in July and thought I would buy some for my goats as they are not available where I am (Argentina) and my goats could do with this supplement!

If I could buy online and have it delivered to my sister for when I arrive that would be ideal!

Thanks all!

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2018, 01:39:49 am »
Moles ,normally have it in stock or can order it
Comes in 2 or 4 gram size
2 gram size for kids over 3 months 4 for adults, you can always give adults 2x 2 gram saves buying both

roddycm

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2018, 04:50:50 pm »
Thank you! Do you know if moles sell the applicator gun too?

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 12:37:10 pm »
Thank you! Do you know if moles sell the applicator gun too?
Moles sell Copinox inside the container is a rubber fitting  tape it firmly on to a normal drench gun
(I use electrical tape, dont use it without tape)
Put narrow end of bolus in fitting and drench as normal
you could use water/vitamin drench or give it when you worm them.
Less problems works great
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:48:18 pm by mart6 »

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Copper supplements new EU rules
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2018, 08:01:04 pm »
EU copper reduction plans officially approved
The proposed changes for copper levels in animal feed have now been officially approved by the European Commission. It will come into effect on August 13, 2018.

EU Regulation 2018/1039 on copper sources for animal nutrition has been officially published in the Official Journal of the European Union on July 24. This means that the rules will come into effect on the 20th day after this publication (August 13, 2018).

The following changes will be implemented:-

The inclusion levels are determined based on complete feed with a moisture level of 12%.

    Piglets: suckling and weaned up to 4 weeks after weaning: From 170 mg/ kg complete feed to 150 mg/ kg complete feed
    Piglets from 5th week after weaning up to 8 weeks after weaning: From 170 mg/ kg complete feed to 100 mg/ kg complete feed
    Cattle (beef and dairy cattle): from 35 mg to 30 mg/kg feed.
    Cattle (beef and dairy cattle), before the start of rumination: Remained the same at 15 mg/kg feed
    Other bovines: from 35 mg to 30 mg/kg feed.
    Goats: from 25 mg to 35 mg/kg feed.
    Sheep: from 15 mg to 15 mg/kg feed.
    Crustaceans: Remained the same at 50 mg/kg feed.
    Other animals: Remained the same at 25 mg/kg feed
    No modification on the maximum copper contents in feed for poultry (including chickens for fattening) has been decided. The current level of 25 mg/kg feed is maintained.

Transition time built in

A transition time will be included in the new regulation, as still volumes of feed and premixes circulate in the market based on the ‘old’ inclusion levels of copper. In practice this means that copper compounds authorised by Regulation (EU) No 349/2010 and Implementing Regulations (EU) No 269/2012, (EU) No 1230/2014 and (EU) 2016/2261, and premixes containing copper, which are produced and labelled before 13 February 2019 in accordance with the rules applicable before 13 August 2018 may continue to be placed on the market and used until the existing stocks are finished.

Feed materials and compound feed for food producing animals containing copper substances or premixes with copper, which are produced and labelled before 13 August 2019 is allowed to be placed on the market and used until the existing stocks are finished. For non-food producing animals, the feed materials and compound feed that is labelled before 13 August 2020 can be used until the existing stocks are finished.
More realistic reduction

Copper is an essential trace element for all forms of life and performs several biological functions. However, high levels of copper (higher than the nutritional needs) used to be used in the past for their positive impact to help animals to cope with pathogens, in particular for young animals (piglets). These high levels of copper are nevertheless excreted by the animals and may then pose a threat for the environment. Initially the EU wanted to propose a dramatic drop in inclusion levels. FEFAC lobbied a more realistic plan, taking both the environment and animal performance and health into consideration. And that plan is now officially approved by the EU.

Read more about the road to reduction of copper in the interview All About Feed had with FEFAC Animal Nutrition Committee expert Erik Dam Jensen.

https://www.allaboutfeed.net/Feed-Additives/Articles/2018/7/EU-copper-reduction-plans-officially-approved-315600E/?cmpid=NLC|allboutfeed|2018-08-01|EU_copper_reduction_plans_officially_approved

Intresting that they have decided to increase copper content in goat feed
But decrease it for cattle goat keepers that feed diary nuts should take note

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Copper supplements
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2018, 01:00:53 am »
That's all very interesting, thanks mart6.

 

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