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Author Topic: overwintering on wet field  (Read 4763 times)

oink

  • Joined Feb 2009
overwintering on wet field
« on: August 20, 2017, 06:48:29 pm »
Hi all,

I'm in the very early stages of thinking about keeping some animals. I have two 4 acre fields, one of which is attached to a couple of acres of woodland. Both fields get quite boggy in places, especially in the winter. I've just moved in and currently letting the neighbour run some cattle and sheep every month or so, just to keep the grass down.

I only want a few animals, say a couple of cows and 4 sheep. I'm thinking dexters or Shetland for the cattle, not sure about the sheep. Anyway, finally to my question! I was wondering if it would be feasible overwinter the animals on one of the fields? Preferably the one attached to the woodland as I could let them for shelter / to control the brambles. My worry is that as it gets so wet it would just be completely ruined by spring but if it was empty from late spring till the autumn, giving the grasses / flowers time to seed, wouldn't the seeds regrow the meadow once the animals were removed in the spring?

I'm basically thinking strip graze one field from spring till autumn, then move the animals to the other field from autumn till the following spring.

I'maware I'm probably asking crazy questions and showing my ignorance but it really is early days and I appreciate all responses, positive and negative :)

YorkshireLass

  • Joined Mar 2010
  • Just when I thought I'd settled down...!
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 07:07:55 pm »
How wet is wet?
My concern is not just short-term poaching, but long term damage to the soil structure, getting docks and nettles on the disturbed ground instead of grass regrowth, and remember that standing in mud is bad for feet and legs. The disturbed ground will also dry out in ruts and ankle-breaking holes unless you bring in machinery to flatten it, which will then cause further disturbance.....

oink

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 07:41:20 pm »
Wet is wet  :raining: . It's my first year here but I did view the property last November and it was dry in areas, squidgy (technical term!) in others, and actual sitting water on a very small portion, basically where the reeds are at there worst.

I hear what you're saying about the soil structure and was hoping I could alleviate the worst of the pressure with small cows and low stocking density but I fear you may be correct. I was also hoping more primitive breeds would be more adaptable but obviously that will only get them so far. A field of mud is no good for anyone.

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
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Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 07:49:23 pm »
Could you restrict to small area in winter?    Put down a hardcore base large enough to feed on?
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
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juliem

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 08:40:40 pm »
I would forget about cattle unless you can get some kind of farm buildings with concrete floors up.....sheep are pretty light on their feet and you may get away with keeping a few.....I have had fields of mud with renting out for horses.Never ever again..complete nightmare.
Consider trying to improve drainage...is this an option.?
Not worth spending a lot of money though..

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 09:16:03 pm »
I think that cattle on the wet ground in winter will wreck it.  Each hoof has two sharp claws which both cut the ground with every step.  Even with sheep if using feeders in winter they need to be on a hard surface otherwise they will poach around them.  I have wet land and have had to bring everything off in really wet conditions.

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2017, 11:19:18 pm »
I have to agree with all that's been said. It takes very little to spoil a wet field and you will lose a lot of valuable grazing in spring while the grass gets re established. You're right - the grass will grow again from seeds left from the previous year. But in addition to grass seeds you will also have seeds from every local weed in the area that have just been waiting for some bare soil in which to establish themselves.


The reason why most farm stock are housed in winter is not because it's too cold for them - they can withstand temperatures well below freezing. But because of the damage they cause to pasture if wintered outside. Some people have a "sacrifice" field  if they cannot house their animals.This is a small area which doesn't get too wet. The grass is still killed by the treading of the stock, but not a total mudbath. So it can be easily harrowed and reseeded in spring and the pasture is easily rejuvenated. 
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

juliem

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 04:56:36 am »
You could say that farmers with permaneant pasture land are compensated for not putting livestock on wet land by the single farm payment system.There has been talk of one of the conditions in the future being that farmers /land owners be compensated for allowing their land to flood during the winter to relieve pressure on our river systems.
It's the way our climate is going I am afraid.

oink

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 02:09:41 pm »
Thanks for all the responses! Just had our first baby so I can only get to the computer when baby allows!!

I know it's a kind of how long is a piece of string question but is there an amount of semi wet land that could hold up to a very small herd for 4 months or so? Say a Dexter cow with heifer and 2 sheep? I imagine the answer to this is however big it is parts will still get churned up which will still encourage the weeds and perhaps damage feet?

I think drainage ditches etc would be a bit costly for what I had in mind plus I think boggy ground is very important environmentally so was hoping not to go down that path.

Forsaking some of the dry ground could work, which would also allow me to encourage a diverse wildflower meadow on the field which is basically what it is at the moment so that could work. Although again, a pricey business reseeding every year.

 I'm beginning to think just keeping stock through the spring and summer maybe the way to go. Im obviously just playing at farming so I'm not looking for profit but making too much of a loss, financially or just in terms of the fields, is a bit much :)

Backinwellies, I've just started following you on Facebook. I think you're just down the road from me, I'm near Llandeilo :)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 02:27:48 pm »
Actually, cattle are adapted to stand in mud, it's standing on cement that's bad for cattle!  But sheep do suffer if they've no dry ground, and cattle need somewhere dry for a bed, too. 

We trashed a sacrificial field this last winter, with Dexters and Jerseys, but at significantly higher stocking density than you are talking.  The year before was much wetter, and the two dexter cows plus followers had been brought inside for three months to keep the ground from being ruined.  The field we trashed was truly awful at the end of the winter, partly because we'd had to take hay through on the quad bike, which wouldn't have been necessary with only three adult beasts.  We scattered seed on the very worst parts and left it shut up empty, and it was ready for a couple of yearling calves by June.  It's looking good now.  This is North Cornwall, so pretty wet but warner than where you are.

I'd buy in young stock for the summers and either sell or house for winter for the first couple of years while you get the hang of your land and how it copes.  Dexters are very hardy and also graze short grass well, which the Jerseys (also light on their feet) don't so well.  (And the Jerseys really wanted more shelter from the wet too.  They'll be housed this winter, at least for the wettest coldest months.)

If you're thinking of breeding the sheep and cattle you also have to think about total headcount over winter - if your sheep need two summers to fatten, you can quite quickly find yourself with 20 heads from 4 ewes. ;)

« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 06:25:57 pm by SallyintNorth »
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

oink

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 02:42:50 pm »
Very interesting sallyintnorth. Thanks a lot, I don't think I'll give up yet.

I found a comment on another forum "...Hi, we are moving towards this system – not with Highland cattle, but with Highland ponies, but I guess a lot of the same problems and solutions apply. We are in Scotland, where it can be pretty cold, pretty wet, and pretty windy…this is what we do:
We have enough acreage to exclude animals from some fields during the summer, to allow the grass to grow long to create foggage or ‘hay on the stalk’. During the winter, we use electric fencing to allow them a new strip of foggage every two days (every day if weather really bad). The horses jump on the new strip like locusts, and graze it clean down before the next move. They are moved before they break the sward and make it muddy (to stop weeds seeding)
The factors we have found is, obviously, time to move the fence – we’re pretty quick at this now and it takes about 20 mins with our system (and you’re going to be checking animals every day at least once anyway);
Protection from the weather, ESPECIALLY the wind. Rain and snow/cold less of an issue;
We do buy in SOME fodder, hardly any compared with what we used to do but it is for welfare reasons ie should the weather really close in and they need some supplementary feeding – you don’t want to be trying to buy hay or silage (or have it delivered) at that point!
The animals have never looked better! My partner is a veterinarian and has been monitoring the condition of the horses closely. They are a hardy breed, and will dig in snow, have thick natural coats etc…trying to do it with unsuitable less hardy breeds would be very unkind.
We are total converts ( with the provisos mentioned above). Far healthier for stock than being in barns or feedlots too."

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2017, 04:25:31 pm »
Understand why it's wet and fix it if you can.  Get a spade and dig a hole and look for compaction.  Also look for signs of springs etc.  Where abouts in the country are you?
For "reeds" I assume you mean "rushes" :).  If you have reeds then it's not a field, it's a pond :D.

oink

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2017, 11:44:58 pm »
Yup, right you are; rushes! You're not the first to point this out to me and I don't think you'll be the last. I've moved to south west wales so not the only word I need to learn!

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
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Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 08:20:29 am »

Oink always good to know someone follows  my additions to Facebook!    you may be interested in our group. Talley and Cwmdu smallholders ..... Has a Facebook page.

If you want to visit and see our Dexter's and Shetlands .,. Who out winter......you are welcome. 
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
www.nantygroes.co.uk
Nantygroes  facebook page

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: overwintering on wet field
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 09:13:23 am »
Hi There  :wave:


If you are not in a rush and you say you have a new baby, look into improving your land first rather than making it worse then sorting out a bigger problem. Be realistic about what animals you can manage especially with a little person to look after. Talk to the farmer who is currently grazing it for you about what you might do. Are you charging them or might they help you with some work to the land?




 

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