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Author Topic: Planning advice needed  (Read 2350 times)

hnima

  • Joined Aug 2017
Planning advice needed
« on: August 20, 2017, 09:28:39 am »
Hi
I bought a property in 2011 consisting of timber stables with attached static caravan attached. We were informed the caravan and stables had been there for 10 years.

In July 2012 we were visited by a planning enforcement officer who asked us to 'regularate' the situation by applying for planning permission retrospectively which was duly granted.

5 years have now passed and we have applied for permitted development for a general purpose agricultural building to be used for winter feed/machinery storage. Upon the planning officers visit she has stated that the planning permission was only temporary for a period of 3 years and the caravan should now be removed within 28 days. The planning officer has refered our case to enforcement and served us with a 28 day notice.

Now I have tried to contact planning, Ive emailed the case officer who visited, the enforcement officer and the general planning email but they completely blank me. No one responds. The office is unmanned and the letter advises us to make an appointment to visit the office to discuss the case, but no one returns my calls.

All I am trying to find out is for them to clarify if;
Its just a certificate of lawful use i need to apply for, or to submit an extension to the current planning application, apply for retrospective planning permission again or to restart the application altogether.

Obviously I have no intention of moving the caravan within the 28 days!

Any advice would be appreciated
Voss Electric Fence

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 09:45:48 pm »
What planning permission was granted in 2012 ? did it state 3 years temporary for the caravan ?
Do you have proof that caravan has been lived in continuously for 10 years ?

hnima

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 06:51:45 am »
Hi
We applied for planning permission for change of use to business and residential in 2012 in part retrospective and for stationing of one static caravan.

What they granted was temporary permission for a period of 3 yrs.

Via overhead photos etc we can prove the caravan was there in 2009, 2014 etc

We gave the planners a witness statement in the 2012 application from a neighbour (who has now moved) stating the caravan was there for 10 years before our purchase - the planners conviniently lost this statement!

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 09:26:27 am »
send an email with a  read request tag and simultaneously a postal letter recorded delivery making the points that you are still waiting for replies.
Rule of life is to keep copies of all correspondence on remote storage and hard copy (so much for the paperless office)

DavidandCollette

  • Joined Dec 2012
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 10:02:15 am »
Contact your mp

stufe35

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 10:11:13 am »
I advise you to engage a 'planning consultant' to guide you through this.  It will cost some money but is likely to lead to the best outcome for you.

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 01:41:01 pm »
Applying for bis use and residential
Its government rules/guidance that you get 3 years temporary permission for residential use to allow the business time to establish and see if its viable. They are very strict on it and rarely allow a extension.

Always beware when the council ask you to apply for retrospective permission especially  if said activity has been on going for a number of years it could be exempt from any enforcement action.

What was the caravans original use prior to your purchase ?  Was it residential ?
Try google earth and check back over different years you may find proof it has been there 10 years.

You are entitled to have a caravan as a mess/rest room ancillary to a agricultural business anyway no permission needed
Its complicated by the temporary residential use
Normally you are expected to produce accounts that prove a viable business and apply for  planning permission for a permanent building   during the 3 year period and the criteria is quite strict.

Bit more detail here
http://homefarmer.co.uk/getting-planning-permission-log-cabins-mobile-homes/
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:01:49 pm by mart6 »

hnima

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 08:00:16 pm »
Hi
I sent recorded delivery letter yesterday and today got response to my emails!

The responses are very brief and dry, but what it boils down to is that they want us to apply for retrospective planning permission for the caravan.

I'm not going to submit the application until the 28 days have elapsed on the permitted development application for the shed

So i will apply on tuesday next week and see what happens!

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 08:17:34 pm »
If you were granted temporary permission for 3 years i would er on caution applying retrospective
imo they are playing games.
If you can prove 10 years residential use , i would wait and see if they issue you with a enforcement notice
If they do you can appeal it
After 10 years its exempt re enforcement so you should get lawful development certificate
You also have the option of applying for planning permission as well, taking the decision out of the hands of the council.

Best place for good  advise is
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=7a4f6ee1ef3b8fcfe13280f3645fccf5
If you post give full details   and let me know
Couple of guys on their are bees knees could save you a fortune

Helped my enforcement case and made council look like a YTS trainee, they had egg on their faces

stufe35

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 10:34:21 pm »
Mart 6 tells you this....


Always beware when the council ask you to apply for retrospective permission especially  if said activity has been on going for a number of years it could be exempt from any enforcement action.


Then you say you are going to apply for planning next Tuesday.....

I urge you to pay for professional planning advice to get someone working on your behalf.

Do not trust anything anyone from the council tells you...they are working for themselves with their interests...not yours. Get someone working for you who knows the rules, and the loop holes...and will understand what your council is up to.

We tried to go it alone...listened to the 'helpful' council planning man did what he said......and got shafted.  Never again I will pay for planning advice from a consultant next time.

mart6

  • Joined Sep 2014
  • Notts / Yorkshire border
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 09:17:37 am »
Agree sound advise and dont be taken in if they appear friendly
My case they just about ignored everything and refused to answer majority of questions.
And the ones they did, they told blatantly inaccurate facts

Worth popping a post on garden law site couple of guys on there are planning consultants
And could offer you some sound advise before you possibly complicate matters even more

Was it the council that asked you to apply for the original retrospective planning permission  soon after you purchased the property ?

They have a agenda whatever you do do not stick in a planning application without advise.
And even if they serve a enforcement notice you have months before its enforceable

« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 09:22:48 am by mart6 »

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 11:22:34 am »
Its a sad situation, but you need to find a friend who knows the law and can stand by your side.

Its amazing what your rights are - if your allowed to gain access to them.

hope it works out for you

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Planning advice needed
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2017, 04:26:45 pm »
I do know you exact circumstances but, my neighbour lived in a static caravan for four years without permission, he was trying to get planning permission for a bungalow as a business with livestock.
  The very helpful but rare planning officer asked how long they had lived there and that if it was for four years they did not need permission. As they had address with the PO and used goole earth and facebook top prove how they had lived there. They are now building a replacement bungalow.
https://urbanistarchitecture.co.uk/the-four-year-rule-explained-certificate-of-lawfulness-application-for-existing-use-or-development/
  Spend the money, get good advice, we are using someone for an appeal now. They know the jargon and the rules. It may cost you a couple of thousand but how much is a building plot worth?

 

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