[minigeorgianhomestead]

Fascinating thread.  I didn't realise there was such a mistrust of Government in the US.... what a sad thing to feel you have to prepare for disaster.

I actually think that comes from the revolutionary war haha. It's something that George Washington even talked about making sure that the citizens could overthrow a tyrannical government if need be. It's a core value from the founding of our country and it's why the 2nd amendment still exists. I actually find it strange that people in the U.K. don't have the same view considering how close the nazi's got in WWII.


When the last person mentioned norway I did look and could not find a single historic property for sale :/

To be honest, and please don't take offence, it sounds like what you want to do is not compatible with the UK, in essence. We are small and crowded, and generally are less "everyone for themselves" than the US seems to be.

Yes, I was just going to say the same thing.

 (for example, buy the old property and restore it, to get that out of your system before heading back to the USA eventually to pick up your homesteading dream again).

I would definitely want to live in it if I went through the trouble of restoring it :/ my love of old buildings is a little crazy.

I was just saying that if I was going to stay in the U.S. that is what I would do. I know 50 acres is probably not going to happen in the U.K. and I wasn't sure about the snow. I don't mind having to adjust it, just trying to find out what exactly would be different and if that's a compromise I want to make to live out both of my dreams!

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Fascinating thread.  I didn't realise there was such a mistrust of Government in the US.... what a sad thing to feel you have to prepare for disaster.

I actually think that comes from the revolutionary war haha. It's something that George Washington even talked about making sure that the citizens could overthrow a tyrannical government if need be. It's a core value from the founding of our country and it's why the 2nd amendment still exists. I actually find it strange that people in the U.K. don't have the same view considering how close the nazi's got in WWII.


When the last person mentioned norway I did look and could not find a single historic property for sale :/

To be honest, and please don't take offence, it sounds like what you want to do is not compatible with the UK, in essence. We are small and crowded, and generally are less "everyone for themselves" than the US seems to be.

Yes, I was just going to say the same thing.

 (for example, buy the old property and restore it, to get that out of your system before heading back to the USA eventually to pick up your homesteading dream again).

I would definitely want to live in it if I went through the trouble of restoring it :/ my love of old buildings is a little crazy.

I was just saying that if I was going to stay in the U.S. that is what I would do. I know 50 acres is probably not going to happen in the U.K. and I wasn't sure about the snow. I don't mind having to adjust it, just trying to find out what exactly would be different and if that's a compromise I want to make to live out both of my dreams!

50 acres over here is the size of a small farm. Currently we farm over 80 acres, producing sheep for market/meat and water buffalo milk for cheese/mozzarella. It is pretty hard to become quite self sufficient, although it is possible. 50 acres over here would set you back a fair bit, land is pretty expensive and in high demand, depending ofc whereabouts you would want to be moving too.

[minigeorgianhomestead]

Yes I did notice haha the exchange rate makes it worse  I did however find a beautiful property in scotland with 16 acres which could work if we find a way to produce fuel. I saw once that someone grew willow to use instead of wood. Someone did mention that raw milk is illegal in scotland but that's just to sell right? No one is going to say anything if we produced our own for our own consumption?

[minigeorgianhomestead]

Fascinating thread.  I didn't realise there was such a mistrust of Government in the US.... what a sad thing to feel you have to prepare for disaster.

I don't feel like it's sad. There's a lot of situations to prep for. Natural disasters, wars, crazy governments, personal financial hard times and economic collapse. It's all about being prepared

[Dan]

Someone did mention that raw milk is illegal in scotland but that's just to sell right? No one is going to say anything if we produced our own for our own consumption?

Yes, we milk our cows for our own consumption. It's illegal to sell raw milk for direct human consumption in Scotland, but not in England.

[YorkshireLass]

Fascinating thread.  I didn't realise there was such a mistrust of Government in the US.... what a sad thing to feel you have to prepare for disaster.

I don't feel like it's sad. There's a lot of situations to prep for. Natural disasters, wars, crazy governments, personal financial hard times and economic collapse. It's all about being prepared

We don't get those either

Well, let me clarify. We don't get big natural disasters. We get travel chaos for a few days, or sometimes people lose power. Flooding has been more common but lots of flood management works are underway. A bunker isn't much good underwater anyway.
The recent Grenfell disaster is an act of criminal negligence, not a natural disaster.

Personal hard times are usually, hopefully, caught by the benefits system (despite what recent governments have been up to).

There are no grizzlies or wolves to gobble anyone up. Even an adder bite isn't fatal. You'd struggle to get very lost and die of exposure.

We haven't had a good invasion for what, a thousand years or so?

Impoverished and damaged communities that I am familiar with have created initiatives and schemes to work together and help each other rather than retreating to a mini fort (e.g. food banks, "junk food project").

We are not a utopia, but on a global level we are incredibly safe and well cared for.

[PK]

What about an alien invasion or a zombie attack?

[YorkshireLass]

What about an alien invasion or a zombie attack?

Go to the Winchester and wait for it all to blow over.

[minigeorgianhomestead]

In the event of an economic collapse I doubt the government would be much help :/ And even if something hasn't happened in a long time doesn't mean it won't! I just prefer to be prepared I guess.

We will NOT be putting in a bunker 

[minigeorgianhomestead]

I would love to hear more about the regulations for livestock or be pointed in the right direction! We would probably keep horses, a couple cows, pigs, chickens, ducks and rabbits! And does anyone use their smallholding for income?

A lot of american homesteaders do these sorts of things.  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2015/01/make-money-homesteading.html

[macgro7]

I would love to hear more about the regulations for livestock or be pointed in the right direction! We would probably keep horses, a couple cows, pigs, chickens, ducks and rabbits! And does anyone use their smallholding for income?

A lot of american homesteaders do these sorts of things.  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2015/01/make-money-homesteading.html

Ok so first remember in the UK you are not allowed to keep horses if your land is registered as agricultural as horses are not classed as product of agriculture (unlike cows or sheep for example).
There's a lovely 70 acre farm with a house and some barns for sale near to us but it costs £1,800,000!!!!
If you have that kind of money, like rain all winter and most of the summer then go for it!
In here you have to notify government agencies every time you move livestock, I.e. buy, sell, death, birth, move to another farm that you also own. There are regulations for everything. Building and planning regulations are also really silly.
I'd rather move to Sweden or New Zealand if I had choice at the moment.
On the bright side, is still choose UK over the USA because it seems much safer, we don't consider ourselves living "near London" if it's less than 6 hours drive, and the best thing (although we keep complaining about it quite a lot) is the NHS! Lol

[YorkshireLass]

Defra is the Government department that deals with livestock, along with the Animal Health Agency. Good luck translating what they say into English!

A cattle example: I am in a 4 year TB zone. Each calf at birth is tagged with two tags carrying a unique individual number, comprising my herd number plus an animal number (eg UK123456 100056). This info is sent to government. At minimum you need calf identity, dam identity, breed, date of birth, place of birth. Every veterinary treatment must be recorded for this individual. All medicines must be safely stored and accounted for. All withdrawal periods must be followed. I can move this animal to another holding, and I must tell the government which animal had moved, from where to where, what date, what vehicle. Once there, nothing can leave that holding for 6 days. I can get special exceptions to go to a show.
I can't transport the animal in certain conditions (eg very pregnant). The trailer must be washed out thoroughly after each use. At sale, slaughter, or death I have to notify the government. I cannot allow manure or slurry to foul water courses, and I cannot allow damage to river banks from drinking/trampling.

I have probably forgotten a whole load. I use a software package that collects more data than legally need, but that is useful/good practice to record.

I have it easy! If you are TB tested more frequently, then you have to repeat the TB test before your animal moves of your holding. This in itself is a 4 day procedure.
TB testing is compulsory at least every four years, for your whole herd. Any positive results mean that animal is destroyed and you go into a routine of repeat tests. You can lose your entire herd.

[Dan]

I would love to hear more about the regulations for livestock or be pointed in the right direction! We would probably keep horses, a couple cows, pigs, chickens, ducks and rabbits! And does anyone use their smallholding for income?

A lot of american homesteaders do these sorts of things.  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2015/01/make-money-homesteading.html

That's what the rest of this site is all about, start here:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/

We run our smallholding as a business. You can read about it here:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/diary/

Note there are differences between Scotland and the rest of the UK due to devolution. For example DEFRA handle agriculture in England, Wales and NI (https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-environment-food-rural-affairs), while it's the Scottish Government in Scotland (http://www.gov.scot/Topics/farmingrural)

[pgkevet]

It's worth remembering that the population of the US is some 350million spread amongst a few larger cities and then an awful lot of spare land. The UK population is about 1/5th of the US in an area half as big again as Florida - and if you remove the 5-6 million scots and their land out of the equation then 60 million folk in less than Florida. If you like to look at disaster speculations.. well wherever it hits we'll likely all get taken out together.

In the states the idea of a quick trip down the road to a liquor store may be a mere 60 miles and nothing of concern here the thought of driving to go buy a bottle of booze in a rural area may be just 5 miles away but takes major planning.

I once took a wrong turn at night in canada and spent some hours on dirt roads between the same corn fields. Here UK you may well get lost in a maze of country lanes but no field is likely to be further than 200yards and the next rural turn a mle away.

[muddypuddle]

As a suggestion, maybe come over and visit the UK maybe spend sometime on a small holding or similar over here for a few months or over various seasons before deciding to settle. There are huge differences between the countries, regulations and cultures between here and the US despite a common language.
I think I would travel the country a bit and find out if and where you would like to settle, for a small country we have a very varied landscape, climate, weather (feels like mainly rain for a lot of the time) etc. some amazing and very different areas not all suit all of the livestock you may wish to keep. Pick up some information first hand on regulations, not just for livestock but the lifestyle that you are seeking and see whether it meets your criteria live before making the commitment.
It seems that there are a lot of rules and regulations but they have been put in place for particular reasons generally to protect us and livestock in the long run, being a small country that is fairly compact compared to the US means that disease can spread very quickly and easily.

However I hope you find what you are looking for long-term.