[davet]

Our (Hill Radnor) ram and a few of the (Hill Radnor X) ewes seem to have Shelly Hoof, where the outer hoof wall is separated from the inner hoof proper, and they spend their time filling them up with mud and muck and 

We've brought the ram inside now, onto a concrete floor, since he seems to be struggling with it.

I found a couple of good threads here:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=54972.0
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=67960.0

we've been told by a couple of people "trim off all the stuff that's loose/detached", but that would mean going a long way up the side of the hoof, which is a far cry from the general advice of "trim no more than flush with (and probably preferably slightly proud of) the sole", so once you get in there and start cutting it's hard to be brave enough to go up so high.

How does it work?  What have people here done in this situation?

I've heard of people not trimming away all the detached stuff and packing it with horse hoof putty instead.  Is this a thing, or just something for people too gutless to cut hard enough?

[Backinwellies]

VET!

[TheSmilingSheep]

We'd be interested to know others' experiences... we've had problems with shelly hoof in the past and struggle in the same way.... tbh it's the only time we every trim/cut but we don't cut out the entire pocket since it would mean very drastic cutting and probably keeping the poor sheep in for a very long time.
Our practice is to clean out as much as possible, cut back a little (to allow cleaning out), blue spray, keep sheep on a hard/dry surface for an hour or two, and then let him/her back with the flock and keep a close eye.
We've never had to do more than this, save once with a lamb, who had to stay in for about three weeks, with play mates.

[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

Hi, quite a high percentage of my ewes and ram have it/have had it from time to time but it very rarely causes problems for us.  We used to trim as much of the loose flap away as we could as per the advice that we received at the time but this made the situation worse and their feet started to look quite odd.  We have now reverted to minimal foot trimming, really only when there is an issue and so not routinely.  Some do go lame occasionally but I think that this is often a matter of them picking up some mud between the toes and I have never had issues with foot rot.  If I had a ewe who was persistently lame or had bad feet I would cull and shelly hoof for me wouldn't be a reason to do so. 
Helen

[Womble]

VET!

Really?  Our vet would be quite bemused to get a call about this sort of thing.

We had dreadful problems with shelly hoof when we first started with sheep, as per my old threads  which you linked to. These were actually quite interesting to look back on - we certainly don't see anything near that bad these days.

The thing is, if you don't trim the pocket all the way up, it remains a pocket, so it continues to fill with dirt and the hoof continues to detach as it grows back, and you can't get rid of the pocket. If you like, you could try partially trimming (just enough to allow you to clean out the pocket properly, so you can pack with hoof putty), but TBH I didn't fiund this to be very helpful when I did it, and I would now trim out the whole pocket back to 'sound' attached hoof.

I also don't think that doing this will necessitate keeping them inside, especially not in the summer. I expect your boy is most likely lame because he has a stone stuck in the pocket that is causing him pain. If you can trim a bit and then clean everything out, he should walk normally again, unless there is some other underlying problem?

I've said this before on other threads, but the thing we changed was to put "Zinc Rich" Rockies salt licks in every field. I'm convinced that this has resulted in our sheep having much stronger hooves, and has reduced the incidence of shelly hoof and cracking etc. If you protect the blocks well from the rain (very important), they will last a long time, so work out reasonably cheap in the long run.

[twizzel]

Have seen good results from using hoof putty on Shelly hoof rather than drastic trimming half of the hoof wall away. Roll the putty in your fingers for a while until soft and pliable, then make sure the gaps are as clean as you can get them, and stuff the putty in. It will set and last a good while in the right conditions.

[bj_cardiff]

I have this in my flock and have done for years, these days I see a lot less of it though, some ewes and family lines seem a lot more predisposed than others.. The only problems is causes with lameness is when the pocket that it forms is so tightly packed with fine soil that it puts pressure on the internal hoof. Clear that out and their usually much better.

I trim all of the pocket/hoof wall out and spray with antibiotic. The black 'muck' is the bacteria thats actually eating away at the white line (white line is the part of the hoof between the hoof and inner part). The 'muck' doesn't like being exposed to the air so its important to expose it to kill it.

[davet]

Thanks for all the replies.

He seemed a lot happier standing this morning, after being on concrete all night, although maybe he was just hungrier.  Last night I was all set to sell him for kebabs and start looking for a replacement (anyone with Hill Radnors?).

So I can take my hoof knife and trim the outer hoof wall away, right up the side of the hoof where it's detached.  Would love to see some photos of this, although I realise "before" pics are a lot more common (the "omg help" pics

Then clean them out, spray blue, and go and buy some zinc blocks.

[Marches Farmer]

I'd clean it out, trim the side wall of the clee so it's a blades-worth above the level of the sole (lay the foot trimmers flat on the sole to do this).  Leave the bulb at the back of the foot intact, unless there's a tag sticking up - this will hold the hoof wall under some tension and should stop the pocket opening up any more.  A/b spray then a couple of days on dryish ground should help a lot.  A few of mine get this every Winter but generally the foot rights itself in the drier conditions of Summer.

[Womble]

Roll the putty in your fingers for a while until soft and pliable.

Aha!  Maybe that's where I went wrong then, [member=25072]twizzel[/member] .  When I asked at the store for hoof putty, they sold me something more like a thick, foul smelling grease (certainly not rollable in any meaningful sense). I managed consistently to get it all over me, and whilst it's great for ruining pairs of jeans, it never stayed in the hoof for more than a day or two.

What brand of putty did you use please?  I'd like to get some in and give it a try  .

[twizzel]

I think it was keratex- link below. Just make sure the gap is as clean as you can get it and it must be dry too :-)
https://www.equisupermarket.co.uk/keratex-hoof-putty-200g.ir?gclid=CKyfkePi-9QCFeYp0wodB2IA7w

[Womble]

Superb - thanks Twizzel 

[landroverroy]

VET!

Really?  Our vet would be quite bemused to get a call about this sort of thing.

We had dreadful problems with shelly hoof when we first started with sheep, as per my old threads  which you linked to. These were actually quite interesting to look back on - we certainly don't see anything near that bad these days.

I've said this before on other threads, but the thing we changed was to put "Zinc Rich" Rockies salt licks in every field. I'm convinced that this has resulted in our sheep having much stronger hooves, and has reduced the incidence of shelly hoof and cracking etc. If you protect the blocks well from the rain (very important), they will last a long time, so work out reasonably cheap in the long run.

I really agree wholeheartedly with the first comment here.
To automatically cry "vet" whenever someone comes up with a livestock problem is not always helpful. Don't get me wrong - vets are essential in many situations. But similarly in many others the poster is merely asking for the advice of more experienced people and the problem in no way warrants getting the vet in. This example is typical; and few vets, unless they keep their own sheep, will have as much experience of the age old problem of sheeps' feet as the person who has kept sheep for years and found out by trial and error the best way to deal with it.
So please, be a bit more selective with the default cry of "vet". In many cases there is no other solution. But for a simple husbandry problem it can be far more helpful to give meaningful advice, rather than make a newby feel that they are not looking after their animals properly because they didnt rush to the vet.   

[twizzel]

Superb - thanks Twizzel 

The other thing to try is a Foot and Fertility lick from mole valley. My ewes feet have been noticeably stronger since putting these lick buckets out, they have biotin in. No feed value just minerals so can have out all year round.

[davet]

Local feed store didn't have anything with zinc which didn't also have copper, but Wynnstay had

http://www.rockies.co.uk/products/agricultural-range/zinc-rich/

Womble, ISTR you constructed something with some kind of revolving arrangement protecting them from rain; do you still have some pictures of that? 

Local feed place did have the Keratex putty though -- it's a tiny tin for 15 quid, but I guess that's what happens when you buy things aimed at horses