[Shropshirelass]

Just out of curiosity what is the A2 gene? Is it something similar to how goats milk doesn't contain certain nutrients like lactose? Also I'm of the age group of all the milk we've ever had is pasteurised, but I'd happily consider raw milk but my parents remember having raw milk. But how safe is it? I know consuming it can harbour certain bacteria and diseases such as TB but how common are cases of this? & how preventable is this? I'd have thought for TB at least as long as you have a clear herd then your ok but I wasn't sure as to the other diseases.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Just out of curiosity what is the A2 gene? Is it something similar to how goats milk doesn't contain certain nutrients like lactose? Also I'm of the age group of all the milk we've ever had is pasteurised, but I'd happily consider raw milk but my parents remember having raw milk. But how safe is it? I know consuming it can harbour certain bacteria and diseases such as TB but how common are cases of this? & how preventable is this? I'd have thought for TB at least as long as you have a clear herd then your ok but I wasn't sure as to the other diseases.

Goats milk does contain lactose. Lactose is present in all milks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose

[LouiseG]

Hi Shropshirelass, 
Guernsey, Jersey, goat and some other dairy cow's that contains predominantly the A2 type of beta-casein protein rather than the more common A1 protein found in regular milk. of the beta-casein milk protein they differ by one gene I think. Hope this makes sense.
 As far as safe is concerned we personally don't feel anymore at risk than eating our own hens eggs, our own veggies etc. We are in a low risk TB area (4 yearly) and we keep all the milking equipment spotless and refrigerate the milk as soon as it comes indoors etc. Nothing is ever going to be 100% safe but the taste and the fact its not been messed about (pasturised, homogenised and standardised) make the small risk worthwhile.
I have also lost a little weight since getting her, as although everything is creamy I'm grazing less on cakes and biscuits

[SallyintNorth]

[member=2218]LouiseG[/member] please could you edit your post.  There's so much formatting text, brackets and stuff I can't make out what it says.

[SallyintNorth]

On the subject of raw milk, we think it's safer and more healthy.  The only processing ours gets is filtered by pouring through muslin, refrigerated, skimmed using a spoon.  It's drunk within 48 hours of leaving the udder, and travels a maximum of 500 yards.

Everything is washed thoroughly and scalded every day before use.  If we ever do get a worrying foreign body in the milk, we use that pail for yoghurt or paneer cheese, as you pasteurise as part of the process.  (If we get a - very rare - dung splash we give that pail to the pigs or chickens.)

We are in a high risk TB area here, so tested annually.  We intend to run a closed herd, using AI for service and with no plans to buy in any other cattle.  There are no camelids here or nearby, and none of our fields have neighbouring cattle sharing a fence line. 

As far as I know, most of us have had a TB jab in any case, although I suspect that some of the children have not and will not.

We have no intention of selling milk, it's just for our own consumption.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

On the subject of raw milk, we think it's safer and more healthy.  The only processing ours gets is filtered by pouring through muslin, refrigerated, skimmed using a spoon.  It's drunk within 48 hours of leaving the udder, and travels a maximum of 500 yards.

Everything is washed thoroughly and scalded every day before use.  If we ever do get a worrying foreign body in the milk, we use that pail for yoghurt or paneer cheese, as you pasteurise as part of the process.  (If we get a - very rare - dung splash we give that pail to the pigs or chickens.)

We are in a high risk TB area here, so tested annually.  We intend to run a closed herd, using AI for service and with no plans to buy in any other cattle.  There are no camelids here or nearby, and none of our fields have neighbouring cattle sharing a fence line. 

As far as I know, most of us have had a TB jab in any case, although I suspect that some of the children have not and will not.

We have no intention of selling milk, it's just for our own consumption.

Completely agree with you on this one...
I tried to get a TB jab, drs told me they are not available in the UK anymore, due to the fact  that they have moved them over to India/Africa where it is more prevalent. Seems ludicrous to me, when coming from farming background you need one...

[Shropshirelass]

Ok well just to clarify on this 1 is that TB seems to be the only real nasty disease you can get off it, correct? Because all of the others I've found are bacterias linked to food poisoning but I thought Listeria could cause blindness?

Personally with TB I've found closed herds work well especially if your TB free, but one thing I have found from working in a veterinary background is that many people don't realise that any birds or mammals can also carry TB this could mean your sheep or other livestock in the fields with your cattle even poultry, birds & deer that feed off their feed or are around them or even your dogs & cats - ok the last one is very unlikely, & although it is rare in humans it some strains can cross over to different species. Don't ask me which ones but I think humans can get Bovine TB & when being tested Avian TB (The strain found in birds) is injected into the 1 injection site as well as Bovine TB to see if they are reactors, because both injections will cause a small reaction but if one is larger than the other over 4mm then unfortunately they have to go. Testing can apparently be done in cattle sheep, pigs & goats (& I think alpacas and other camelids). But I think they would use other strains of TB for other species except camelid species.

The elimination process for cattle, which I think would be similar for other species is below:

Reaction Result at Standard Interpretation
1. Animals showing a negative bovine reaction and a positive or negative avian reaction.
2. Animals showing a positive bovine reaction equal to or less than a positive avian reaction.   Pass (retain)
1. Animals showing a positive bovine reaction not more than 4mm greater than a positive avian reaction.
2. Animals showing a positive bovine reaction and a negative avian reaction where the difference is 4mm or less.   Inconclusive (retest)
1. Animals showing a positive bovine reaction more than 4mm greater than a negative or positive avian reaction.   Fail (remove)

[Shropshirelass]

On page 9 of the below webpage is a table of compiled confirmed statistics of cases of TB in other species apart from cattle over a 10 year period in the uk which is rather interesting which is why I think it's good to test other species of livestock & that I also don't fully believe that badgers are fully to blame, because it's likely a lot of these cases were diagnosed when the animals were sick, as it's not common place to test other species if you look closely for a number of years species such as cats, alpacas, sheep, wild deer and pigs the numbers are quite high. Ok their not in the hundreds but thats probably due to the above mentioned reasons. But how many of us keep sheep, alpacas & cattle together or nearby, or have cats follow us into cow sheds or pigs across the farmyard & how many people have deer nearby that they are aware of?

It's is known to be an airborne transmitted disease but I seem to remember links about badger urine & faeces being mentioned. But it's a disease I personally think needs to be re-assesed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/359464/Bovine_TB_Guidance_090814_FINAL.pdf

[harmony]

Ok well just to clarify on this 1 is that TB seems to be the only real nasty disease you can get off it, correct? Because all of the others I've found are bacterias linked to food poisoning but I thought Listeria could cause blindness?

Raw milk is becoming a popular farm gate sale around us but there has been an outbreak of illness linked to one farm where several people were ill. The young and old being particularly vulnerable along with pregnant women.


I am not saying you shouldn't drink raw milk and we used to but you should be aware that there could be a risk.


Personally I would feel happier drinking my home produced milk than buying raw milk from somewhere else.

[Rosemary]

As with most viral / bacterial infections, the very young, very old and immuno-compromised are most at risk.

I'd guess that folk that sell raw milk have pretty exacting standards to maintain - it's not in their interests to have folk be ill as a result of eating / drinking it.

There's growing scientific evidence that raw milk has health benefits - not just tree-huggers opinions.

And let's face it, calves are sookin' off shity tits and having no ill effects - could it be something in teh milk that protects them?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

As with most viral / bacterial infections, the very young, very old and immuno-compromised are most at risk.

I'd guess that folk that sell raw milk have pretty exacting standards to maintain - it's not in their interests to have folk be ill as a result of eating / drinking it.

There's growing scientific evidence that raw milk has health benefits - not just tree-huggers opinions.

And let's face it, calves are sookin' off shity tits and having no ill effects - could it be something in teh milk that protects them?

Probably because they're used to the environment. However I have had calves pick up sore stomachs from said muck being ingested, so not all calves are like that I guess. I really depends on how strong the animal is and every animal is unique

[Buttermilk]

Not just tb as a risk but brucellosis is still a cause for cattle to abort.  That said we lived on fresh milk out of the bulk tank until we gave up dairy farming.

[harmony]

As with most viral / bacterial infections, the very young, very old and immuno-compromised are most at risk.

I'd guess that folk that sell raw milk have pretty exacting standards to maintain - it's not in their interests to have folk be ill as a result of eating / drinking it.

There's growing scientific evidence that raw milk has health benefits - not just tree-huggers opinions.

And let's face it, calves are sookin' off shity tits and having no ill effects - could it be something in teh milk that protects them?

I think your above guess might not be correct. I don't believe those selling milk have to have their milk tested. Although it is in their interests to.


How do you know calves don't get ill from dirty teats?

[SallyintNorth]

As with most viral / bacterial infections, the very young, very old and immuno-compromised are most at risk.

I'd guess that folk that sell raw milk have pretty exacting standards to maintain - it's not in their interests to have folk be ill as a result of eating / drinking it.

There's growing scientific evidence that raw milk has health benefits - not just tree-huggers opinions.

And let's face it, calves are sookin' off shity tits and having no ill effects - could it be something in teh milk that protects them?

I think your above guess might not be correct. I don't believe those selling milk have to have their milk tested. Although it is in their interests to.

I don't know where you get that from!!!  My neighbour in Cumbria used their own raw milk in their farm shop and cafe, and had annual TB tests (the rest of us being on once every fourth year.).  I never questioned them about any additional tests over and above what the dairy company they sold their surplus to did, but Christine Page, of Smiling Tree Farm, found that she had to work very hard to get her hygiene up to acceptable standards when she started to sell her raw milk.  I think I'm right in saying that people who sell raw milk for human consumption have to send samples off for testing every couple of weeks. 

Of course in Scotland, where selling raw milk for human consumption is illegal, those who do sell raw milk sell it "for bathing" or other non-food purpose, so do not have to pass these tests and won't need to be TB tested more regularly, either.

[harmony]

As with most viral / bacterial infections, the very young, very old and immuno-compromised are most at risk.

I'd guess that folk that sell raw milk have pretty exacting standards to maintain - it's not in their interests to have folk be ill as a result of eating / drinking it.

There's growing scientific evidence that raw milk has health benefits - not just tree-huggers opinions.

And let's face it, calves are sookin' off shity tits and having no ill effects - could it be something in teh milk that protects them?

I think your above guess might not be correct. I don't believe those selling milk have to have their milk tested. Although it is in their interests to.

I don't know where you get that from!!!  My neighbour in Cumbria used their own raw milk in their farm shop and cafe, and had annual TB tests (the rest of us being on once every fourth year.).  I never questioned them about any additional tests over and above what the dairy company they sold their surplus to did, but Christine Page, of Smiling Tree Farm, found that she had to work very hard to get her hygiene up to acceptable standards when she started to sell her raw milk.  I think I'm right in saying that people who sell raw milk for human consumption have to send samples off for testing every couple of weeks. 

Of course in Scotland, where selling raw milk for human consumption is illegal, those who do sell raw milk sell it "for bathing" or other non-food purpose, so do not have to pass these tests and won't need to be TB tested more regularly, either.

I thought the general conversation had moved anyway from the obligatory TB testing and believe the greater risk is from bacteria that causes food poisoning. I am absolutely certain hygiene standards are required to be pretty high, you have to register to sell milk for human consumption and have high herd health status. You say "you think you are right in saying...."  but that is not the same as knowing.


I have done some further research and raw milk is tested quarterly to monitor microbiological standards whatever that means. Any testing between the quarterly checks seems to be at the discretion of producers not a legal requirement.