[Cuddles]

Hi all,

I'm after some after the fact advice for a first time lamber (both me and sheep).  I've got a very small flock so I was politely turned down when I rang around scanners so I've no idea who is carrying what.

Last night one of the ewes lambed, she was massive and gave birth to a tiny wee lamb.  Amazingly the lamb is up, alert and feeding, did i mention it was really tiny!

Anyway, I kept an eye on her a few hours to make sure she had bonded with the lamb, it had fed and then to see if anything else popped out as she was still a bit restless.  I thought the fact mum was so big and the lamb was so small that was a bit suspicious but she wasn't showing any signs of lying down, straining etc soI had a quite feel just into her cervix but I couldn't feel anything so I thought it must just have been a really small single.  When I checked on them at 4 this morning the ewe and lamb were fine, when i got up this morning at 7 there was a 2nd lamb (dead) lying where she had given birth to the 1st. 

I'm gutted (tiredness probably doesn't help either) but I'm struggling to know if there were signs that I missed and how long you should leave things before you intervene with multiple births (possibly a how long is piece of string question)?

Cheers,
Cuddles

[shep53]

If she showed no signs then not a lot for you to go on , I take it there was no cleansing after the first lamb but she may have eaten it or just not passed it .   If you put your hand or locked hands just in front of her udder and push or pull ( if standing ) then you should feel a lamb or if really worried then put a gloved hand right into the womb .    A second lamb of twins tends to come fairly quickly after the first .       

[bj_cardiff]

I don't scan so I never know how many lambs are due. I'd of done the same as you, kept an eye on her, as she was restless I'd of checked her internally, you 'should' of been able to feel the next lamb and she 'should' of been pushing when she felt your hand inside her pelvis.

If I see something about to lamb, I leave them until their seriously pushing, usually when the lamb feet are showing, or if the bag has been showing for a while and I step in and lamb it. Then wait 10-15 mins while I do something else and then go back and check (internally) for another lamb if I suspect its a multiple birth. I do get cought out from time to time and go back and find a lamb that didn't make it out of the bag dead, which is so frustrating as I was so close..

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it, it happens to everyone. You can't watch them 24/7..

[harmony]

Don't beat yourself up. Lambing is a constant learning curve and the steepest bit comes at the beginning. You learn something every year.


There is a fine line between jumping in too quickly and not doing enough sometimes and judgement comes with experience.


If you check internally for a lamb you need to get right in there.


At least you have a live lamb. 

[Rosemary]

Yes, don't beat yourself up. It happens. The ewe will be fine with her tiny lamb.

[DartmoorLiz]

I couldn't persuade a scanner to come to me either and it makes lambing such a lottery, I can't go by the size of the ewe, one of mine was giant and had a small single.  You are supposed to be able to feel if there is a second lamb by ... what my friend calls balloting their sides.  I can never tell.  If its any comfort, I've been told that a ewe will take longer to deliver a dead lamb because it is not moving inside her so the chances are the lamb was already dead.  At least your first time ewe now has only one to bring up.


Hope you have better luck next time but in this case I doubt there was much you could do to make the outcome any different  .


Can you take your small flock to a friend or neighbour for scanning?

[Foobar]

That was my thought - she took longer because it was already dead.

It happens though, don't beat yourself up.  Short of being there 24hrs a day, which is just silly, there is nothing you can do.  Just put it down to natural selection.

[shep53]

.  You are supposed to be able to feel if there is a second lamb by ... what my friend calls balloting their sides.  I can never tell.

                       Ballotment is done in front of the udder not the sides .                                                       

.

If I see something about to lamb, I leave them until their seriously pushing, usually when the lamb feet are showing, or if the bag has been showing for a while and I step in and lamb it. Then wait 10-15 mins while I do something else and then go back and check (internally) for another lamb if I suspect its a multiple birth.   

                          While I can understand your motivation , sheep have been lambing on their own for a long time ,out of the 14 sheep that lambed here today   small assistance on 1 and only saw 2 lambs in the birth process  all lambs alive

[Cuddles]

Thanks for all the replies and support, it's much appreciated.  Tiny is doing fine with mum, so hopefully she'll get there in the end.
I spent the afternoon watching (from the house) another ewe give birth and wander off.  Taking no interest in its new lamb, I left them for an hour or so but the ewe wasn't interested. Both are now penned up together so I'll be out making sure the lamb is ok and feeding through the night... Either I've upset the lambing gods or you guys are superstars and I'm simply not worthy!

Thanks again,
Cuddles

[harmony]

That is lambing. You have done the right thing with your uninterested ewe and her lamb. Hope that goes well. Sometimes you get a run of things. Our first batch went great and lambs are well away but the next batch weren't as straightforward and have been hard work at times. It is the way things go.

[Cuddles]

... aaaarrrggghhhhhhh!........

Went out at 4 to check everyone... the tiny lamb has gone, I can only imagine a fox has got it?? wandered round the whole steading but can't find any sign of it anywhere. the ewe is calling away looking for it, what are the chances I could foster a pet lamb from a neighbour onto her?

Lets end on a high, it looks like the other ewe is starting to accept its lamb. 

[harmony]

Oh Cuddles you are having a time of it 


It will be harder to get a lamb onto her without birth fluids to rub it in or a skin for the foster lamb. That is not to say you wont get one on but you will need some sort of lamb adopter arrangement.

[SallyintNorth]

If she's really desperate for a lamb, she will probably take a foster, even without the skin of her own lamb.  You'll need to hold her for it to feed for a few days, probably.  But unless she really beats it up, you would probably be able to do it without an adopter, if you want.

[kanisha]

Hopefully you have found him snuggled up sleeping peacefully away from his mum . ..........

[Marches Farmer]

How much do you know about the health status of the flock the ewe came from?  I tiny lamb + 1 dead to a young, well-nourished ewe might have me thinking about abortion agents, etc.   We once lost a lamb and found it wedged halfway under the bottom of a sheep fence, with no obvious injuries, and concluded it had probably died in the field and been dragged off by a badger or fox after death.