[Cobra]

Hi all,

Well another open ended question for you all, particularly those who only have a few sheep's.

Do you dip your own?
Do you have someone come to you?
Do you have a word with a local farmer and take them to him when he dips?

Would be like to hear cost involved also, hoping to have stock for next year and getting prepared   

Thank Eee 

[Hellybee]

We dont   We spray them

[Cobra]

I didnt see that one coming.

What do you use, how effective is it compared to dip.

[jacob and Georgina]

correct me if i am wrong but i thought that dipping was almost unheard of these days? with sprays being the easier option??

[hexhammeasure]

we spray ours but we only have 50 or so breeding ewes. the other farm I work at has about 1100 ewes and they find it much more efficient to dip. they need a licence from the environment agency and a waste disposal licence and disposal plan.. we are always dressed in full hazard suits with suitable face masks. dipping will take place about a month after shearing to allow a bit of fleece for the dip to adhere to. each animal is placed in the dip and dunked at least once to be sure the whole body and head is protected. as for efficiency in keeping flys away  all I can say is they both seem to work

[suziequeue]

Do you wear the same sort of PPE to spray the sheep as for dipping? Is it the same sort of compound?

(I'm in the same position as Cobra..... hoping to start with a few sheep this autumn)

SUsanna

[woollyval]

Up until 1989 twice yearly dipping was compulsory.....we did it if I remember correctly once after shearing and again in the autumn but I may be wrong as it was 21 years ago! Then until 1992 we had to dip yearly which did happen just after shearing making it really hard to handle wet slimy sheep!
The dips used were organophosphate dips which we all got covered with.....actually they are a pesticide derived from chemical warfare stuff and proved very dangerous to the operative and the environment. The reason folks dipped was that sheep scab was a notifiable disease and MAFF the forerunners of DEFRA wanted to eradicate it.

In 1992ish it became non notifiable and into the 90s there were lots of cases of people suffering from a kind of ME which was linked with dip.

They then started looking at safer dips and came up with synthetic pyrethroid dips....safer to people but more devastating to the environment

So they banned them and rehabilitated OP dips but under extreeme precautions as detailed above by hexhammeasure!

SPs are still used though and are the sctive pesticide in Dysect, Crovect and Spot on......so these products must be used with great caution.

We all used to take our sheep to be dipped with the big flocks......I used to take several trailers full and collect other folks few sheep too. These were the days before paperwork you understand! We sheared like that too.

Nowdays people use pourons with the smaller flocks and some with bigger ones, if you have lots of sheep >400 for example, it is ofter quicker and cheaper to get the mobile dip in.

The history of dip is very interesting as lots of people associate dipping and pour ons with preventing fly strike when it is actually scab that everyone has been trying to eradicate. Coopers....if anyone remembers them......made their name in the 1850s patenting sheep dip made from sulphur and arsenic

Its since the 2nd WW that the more toxic....well synthetic.....as I expect loads of arsenic around the place was hardly safe.....and chemical warefare stuff has appeared.
With ivomectin came the possibility of scab treatment without dip......

All facinating stuff!

[suziequeue]

That's really interesting.

I got interested in organophosphate sheep dip and the side effects it was having on farmers after the first Gulf War when - as you may remember - there was alot of speculation that "Gulf War Syndrome" might have been linked to OP exposure as part of a chemical warfare exposure.

It was interesting to note at the time that some farmers had suffered similar symptoms for years and everybody was saying it wasn't anything to do with OP sheep dip......

What goes around comes around I guess.

Susanna

[Cobra]

Thanks for the input everyone, I'm really grateful, as some of you know I have been out of farming for a number of years and the last time I handled sheep we were doing the twice a year dip, yes the dips were less than pleasant and I remember finishing a day being soaked  I now have a disease and part of that is MS related although I doubt it was a result of earlier years of dipping, but makes you think doesn't it  I also recall the fertilisers that we tipped in the hoppers and weedkillers prior to the greater knowledge and reforms. Wonder were still breathing really 

What would product would you recommend for spraying, what do i look for at the agricultural merchants.

Once again many thanks 

[hexhammeasure]

there are basically 3 products that are popular for spraying each has its own advantages. Crovect, clik and spot-on

I prefer crovect as it kills what it touches so can be used when sheep get struck

and by the way this is a VERY bad year for flies. Dispite our precautions we have had 3 lambs struck. Haven't had that happen for 10 years or so

[Fleecewife]

Hello again Cobra.  It's not unrealistic to think that your illness could be related to the dips and other chemicals you used in the past, without protective clothing.  Our neighbour has definitely been affected and cannot go to a sheep show or anywhere else where large numbers of sheep congregate because of the smell of OPs which makes him feel unwell.  He has more recently developed some psychological changes too, depression and aggression, which may come from the same source.  Not saying that you should expect those too but depression has been reported amongst farmers after OP exposure, as well as the ME type symptoms.  Hope that's not the case for you though - but the joy of having your own smallholding would lift anyone's spirits  .  The trouble with protective clothing for something like sheep dipping is that it's almost impossible to do the work in the necessary kit  Even for spraying Crovect, I find that gloves rip after every few sheep so we try to avoid spraydrift and wipe our hands with baby wipes if they get the product on them - great things baby wipes ! But dipping in the full kit - impossible    Just in case OPs have played a part in your illness it would be wise to avoid them now.

[humphreymctush]

dectomax injection is excellent. It kills scab so is an alternative to dipping and is also a wormer.

[Rosemary]

We don't do anything about scab. We don't have it - should we do it as a precaution?

[humphreymctush]

I dont have scab and I defineately dont want it. I dont mind using the dectomax injection once a year because as I said it acts as a wormer anyway so its not a waste.

[Rosemary]

I take your point but I prefer to use as few chemicals as I can, obviously without compromising the animals' welfare.  My current vet's attitude generally is "if you haven't got it, don't treat it" - bear in mind we have a small number of sheep that don't go anywhere or have friends to stay over - but I'll have new vets in Angus so I'll take some advice from them.