[caz]

I am looking to buid a pole barn field shelter for horses on my 8 acres which currently has nothing on it except a pylon. I rang the council to ask what sort of planning to apply for and they said just to email the details and a map as it could be within my permitted development rights ie not needing full planning as it would be agricultural building. I did this over 5 weeks ago and havent heard anything since. I rang them a week after i sent it to confirm receipt and they said they had it and would be in touch in a COUPLE of weeks.  How long can they make me wait ? Do i even need their say so if it is for agriculture? I dont want to keep calling them in case they get sick of me!

[jameslindsay]

Hounding the living day lights out of the little Hitlers is the only way to make them so sick of you that they will be desperate to make a decision to get rid of you!!!! Get that number on speed dial and good luck.

[caz]

ha ha maybe i should ring them again then! No actually i guess email better so i have myself a paper trail

[bazzais]

Here is some more information about the act:-
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/annexepps7.pdf

I believe the council have 28 days to respond to your application by telling you if you need further planning.  If you dont hear from them then its supposed to mean that you are allowed to build using the Town and Country planning act.

Ta

Baz

[caz]

thanks for that but im now confused, if i have 8 acres cant remember how many hectares that is but im sure its less than 5, does that mean i am also included in this 28 day limit? there is some mention of parcels of land being owned by different people which is the case where i am, it was a whole farm and every field was sold off seperate. I dont want to speak to the council not knowing my rights as i think they sometimes tell people whatever they want.

[doganjo]

An acre is roughly half a hectare

[old ploughman]

if they acknowledged receipt - 28 days  later i would be starting to put up some poles!

regards

[Anke]

2.5 acres (4000m2) is 1 hectare (10,000m2).

I was under the impression that horse accommodation does NOT fall under agricultural development (It is at least up here in Scotland), so horse stables need FULL PP. Up here (In my case) I did NOT need 5 hectares, I appled under agricultural notifcation for P/tunnel and then again a year later for 2 buildings (goat house and hay/lambing shed), not very big though. All was fairly painless, the papers for the goathouse/hayshed have still not come through, sheds have ben up for a year now...

[bazzais]

I have half an application filled in on the http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/ with my plans drawn up ready to go.  I am just waiting for another planning application to go through prior to that as its not covered by that act (its a toilet block so not agri) and dont want to let anything jeopardise that app as its more important to me and is proving harder to get.

In my opinion the act was written to help smallholders/farmers not get wrapped up in long and complicated planning applications for building things that are a necessity and not a luxury, it allows for farms to expand to fit the modern needs of farming. (which is why you need the acreage)

The one thing that comes to mind though is that I am pretty sure that any new builds under this act cannot be for the sole use of animal housing, more storage for modern equipment, dry storage for food stuffs, vehicle maintenance garage, you also have to write in your application why you need this space and as has been said ponies/horses are not agricultural even though many make up vast parts of rural life, livelihoods and events.  etc etc

If you have a receipt for the documents and they have been accepted as a formal planning ap then I'd go ahead and start as they have not got back with an objection.  - But it does sound like you have not submitted it through the correct channel or in the correct format for them to accept it as a planning up under this act. They could be stalling you for this reason.

I have a feeling that all they are going to advise you next is through what routes you need to start applying ie under the above act or through the normal planning routes.


In all honesty after all the waiting for planning I've had, I wish I'd just build it and gone through the plans later.  Every year my business plan gets put back due to lack of infrastructure, its a year of continuing with the losses of not having the infrastructure in place to expand the business.  If it takes another year for the plans to go through then I may of well have taken the risk of building it in the first place cos it cost more in 'lost' business revenue than what the build cost is. - rant over

Ta

Baz

[Susie]

We have just submitted an application for a pole barn too and were told that for the permitted development rights to apply you need to own a minimum of 12.5 acres. This can be in more than one parcel of land as long as they are reasonably close to each other. The 28 day rule only applies if you meet the 12.5 acres minimum requirements so it is likely that you will end up having to apply for full planning permission - unless different areas have different rules? Sorry, that's probably not at all what you wanted to hear  Good luck with it.

[caz]

Im on the understanding that using horses to graze a field is an agricultural activity and so in turn i would expect those animals to have shelter from the elements. This is a piece from my council about horses(wouldnt let me cut a paste the bit i want)http://www.gateshead.gov.uk/DocumentLibrary/Building/Leaflets/planning/adviceguides/7.pdf

Think I will have to try and clear it up with them.

Susie do you know how close these parcels have to be?

[bazzais]

Reading that document especially this

As a result although the grazing of horses on agricultural land does not
require any planning permission any physical development associated with
horsiculture such as stables, food stores, jumps and menageries etc and the
change of use to the exercising/keeping of horses, which is not agriculture
under the Section 336 of the Planning Act, would require a planning
application.

The grazing of horses does not require you to apply for a change of use of the land.  ie you can keep horses on agri land for grazing

Any other associated activity (ie stables, using the land to teach riding lessons, food storage for horse food) involving horses will require not only planning permission but also a change of use on the land.

The document does go on to state their main conditions in applying and getting permission though.  Stick within those rules and come up with some concise reasoning why your plans 'are' within those rules and you should be OK.

Stick with it.

Ta

Baz

[hughesy]

Permitted development under the town and country planning act requires that you have 12.5 acres and that the development is for agricultural use, ie a barn etc. Horses are not defined as agricultural. You'll find pretty much everything you need to know at http://www.fieldtofarm.com/forum/

[Susie]

Sorry, our land is all in one bit so didn't ask him. Have you tried phoning the planning officer? Say you're thinking of buying some land in the area and outline what you want to do if you don't want to give them the specific details before researching a bit more.

[bazzais]

Parcels of land all have to all be within 5 mile radius and total 12.5 acres.

Ta

Baz