[Kimkimmy]

How does everyone get rid of caterpillars. They are dreadful this year. I try to pick them off but I've so many brassicas that its a lengthy process every day. The organic spray I purchased for a vast fee was useless .

[BrimwoodFarm]

Tell me about it - the number of Cabbage Whites around has been huge this year. It's been a nightmare. I'm afraid I've been picking off too because I don't want to spray. Next year I'm going to have to net the brassica patch because I've lost so many plants this year.

[Fleecewife]

Netting early is essential, with a small enough mesh that they can neither get through nor lay their eggs through.  What I find though is that it's such a drag taking off and replacing the net every time I need to weed, that it's easy for the plants to become swamped by the weeds.

Before the caterpillars actually hatch, run your thumb over the backs of the leaves to squash any eggs there. This is much easier than waiting until they hatch before picking them off.  Be careful though not to squash the eggs of beneficial insects such as ladybirds, which tend to be laid singly, whereas the cabbage whites are in patches.
I've never found soap sprays are any use against caterpillars, except maybe those velvety soft green ones which hide on the leaf ribs, perfectly camouflaged.   Nor will my hens eat the caterpillars of cabbage white butterflies - I think they must be bitter and maybe even a bit toxic.  I wonder if the caterpillars can concentrate the mustard oils from the brassicas to produce a defense?

[BrimwoodFarm]

Yes, I noticed about the chickens too; they'll eat the small cabbage white ones (green) but not the large cabbage white (yellow, black, green). I wonder whether it's the colour...looks toxic? Or maybe it is the taste? Also - as a point of interest, the small white lays single eggs too so I can be difficult to always squish the right eggs.

The main issue I have is that my garden is very small and placing nets is difficult without the brassica leaves actually touching the edges. I think I'll try sowing a couple of lines centrally down my raised beds and then underplant with lettuces or something to try and avoid the leaves being available for egg laying.

[devonlady]

Small bore plastic piping can be cut to size, bent over and pushed into the soil then draped with netting. This way you can have any height you like over your beds.

[Carse Goodlifers]

I have to say that we haven't had any issue with them this year until I went to get some kale last night and found a caterpillar munching away.  It was dispatched quickly.  Had a good look for any others but no signs.

As well as cabbage whites diamondback moths have been a problem in commercial crops this year.  I've had a couple of enquiries about them earlier this year.  The moths got blown over here from the continent.

I have issues with gooseberry sawfly larvae (or caterpillars) and I tend to stick the hose (jet setting) onto the plants to wash the caterpillars off.  The birds then pick them up off the ground.

[Fleecewife]

We had loads of the diamond backs earlier in the year and, from all the hype, I was worried I would lose my brassicas.  Apart from a few small things at the 'stuck-to-the-leaf' stage, which I squashed, absolutely no damage!

[cloddopper]

I have to say that we haven't had any issue with them this year until I went to get some kale last night and found a caterpillar munching away.  It was dispatched quickly.  Had a good look for any others but no signs.

As well as cabbage whites diamondback moths have been a problem in commercial crops this year.  I've had a couple of enquiries about them earlier this year.  The moths got blown over here from the continent.

I have issues with gooseberry sawfly larvae (or caterpillars) and I tend to stick the hose (jet setting) onto the plants to wash the caterpillars off.  The birds then pick them up off the ground.

 I found hundreds all about 1.5 mm long. Unfortuately it's bee raining too much to give themma spray with plant resue so today until of faars up they will continute to steal my dinner .

 Then I'll get my revenge . I'm going to use Plant rescue bug spray diluted down to the correct application dose .  It's the only way I've ever been able to make inroads on the little blighter's in the past.

Yes I'd love to be fully organic , but as always,  nature is against me if I want to harvest a crop or two.

[Fleecewife]

I think because I've never used chemicals in my garden that it's easy for me to accept some losses (one for me, one for the birds and one for the ground - the old farmer's seed sowing adage).  I always sow a few more seeds than I will need, and if they all work then I've got a glut.  But I no longer sow large numbers, as I have found the work required is a lot, but loads of good stuff ends up on the compost heap.  Better to concentrate on food you know will be eaten and direct your energies to that.

Having said that, we still have a fight on our hands against red spider mite after 3 years of battling.  It's slowly improving, but we lost our cucumbers fairly early on, after just a few weeks of cropping; the climbing French beans cropped but were then got by the mites so the plants were burnt.  With the sweet corn, we used so much soap spray as we could see small numbers of mites and cobwebs and we wanted to hold them at bay until we got a crop, that the pollen was too wet to fly, so disappointing crop.  On the other hand, the inside of the greenhouse is now clear, so huge numbers of chillies, runner beans have cropped mightily without a sign of mites, and in fact everything else is fine and we have had plenty to eat all season 

I think the changeover from chemical use to its banning from your garden can mean 2 or 3 difficult years while you feed up your soil and establish your minibugs, but after that it's so rewarding.

So back to caterpilllars - keep on with the organic methods of covering and picking, and feel so healthy and smug when you eat delicious chemical-free food 

[cloddopper]

I like your post FW , yet you say you use soap water .. that's a chemical treatment is it not ?
Such a treatment not only smothers the breathing system of bugs it actually makes water wetter than it is  , as a result it also removes the natural oils covering many plants which may well render them susceptible to various viruses ..


 Due to my disabilities , leaning over and pickig the beasties off by hand is too difficult &painful.
 I'd like to try your way of the soap, as well as making up some light weight fine mesh net cages so the butterflies can't touch a growing plant.  This is because  I've found  they often sit on a small mesh net of 1/4 inch mesh or bigger &  lay their eggs through it if the crop is pushing up against the netting .

Can you tell me what soap you are using & if it is a case of making up a concentrated solution at first can you tell me what your dilution rates are please ?

Do you use it on salad stuffs as well or only on crops that will be boiled ?

Does it have a deterring effect on slugs by attacking their slime factories ?

[Fleecewife]

I like your post FW , yet you say you use soap water .. that's a chemical treatment is it not ?
Such a treatment not only smothers the breathing system of bugs it actually makes water wetter than it is  , as a result it also removes the natural oils covering many plants which may well render them susceptible to various viruses ..


 Due to my disabilities , leaning over and pickig the beasties off by hand is too difficult &painful.
 I'd like to try your way of the soap, as well as making up some light weight fine mesh net cages so the butterflies can't touch a growing plant.  This is because  I've found  they often sit on a small mesh net of 1/4 inch mesh or bigger &  lay their eggs through it if the crop is pushing up against the netting .

Can you tell me what soap you are using & if it is a case of making up a concentrated solution at first can you tell me what your dilution rates are please ?

Do you use it on salad stuffs as well or only on crops that will be boiled ?

Does it have a deterring effect on slugs by attacking their slime factories ?

Hi Cloddopper.  I use the soap for killing greenfly etc as sold by The Organic Gardening Catalogue, and dilute according to their recommendation (I don't remember offhand).  I also have ready made up solution which I bought thinking it might be a bit different, but it isn't  .  The past couple of years are the first we have used it intensively, in an attempt to clear the mites, so I don't know if it does affect the surface of the leaves - it is a point worth thinking about though.  My mum used to use the washing up water, with detergent, which worked well.
I have never sprayed the soap mix onto slugs - I put them onto a stone and stand on them.
No I don't use the soap mixture on salads, except tomatoes if necessary, and they get washed very thoroughly.  I don't fancy my food tasting of soap    Same with beans and so on - wash thoroughly if they have been sprayed recently, but usually they would probably not be sprayed close to harvest.  I steam all veg to be cooked, but it's the washing that gets the soap off.

The question of if the soap is a chemical - it is, but it is a relatively harmless one , accepted by Organic bodies, compared to some of the stuff for sale.  My preferred option is squashing and picking, plus barriers. 

For getting to brassicas to pick caterpillars, have you tried one of those kneeling things which double as a seat, with handles to haul yourself up with?  I have a couple of those, one in the flower garden, one for the veg patch.  They help a bit, although you do have to keep standing up to move it along.  It's awful isn't it when our bodies hurt too much to be able to do the garden.  I mostly have to kneel, wear carpetlayers gel kneepads, and stop for a sitdown horribly frequently  and still I feel like screaming.  That's why I've cut down what we grow to a bare minimum, with no extras.  Except for the flowers