[milliebecks]

Can anyone advise what the triggers are for ewes starting to cycle?

I have a small flock of shetlands: 10 ewes with lambs, 2 gimmers and an unrelated tup lamb, all running together.
Really helpful advice on this forum has led me to the conclusion that I should allow the lambs to wean naturally, and I'm assuming that ewes won't cycle until their lambs are weaned. But what about the gimmers?

As well as the tup lamb I have 4 boys, 2 of which I think are riggs 
Should i take them off .... and if so, when?

I'm in the north of Scotland, if that's relevant ....... I think I read something about daylight hours ..... and don't want to be tupping before mid-November ....

[Jukes Mum]

I'm afraid I don't know, but we separate our boys out in August just in case.

[Rosemary]

Oestrus in most sheep breeds is triggered by shortening daylength. Primitive breeds tend to need shorter days to bring them into season. I woudl guess that the presence of lambs is not a significant factor.

I seperate my tup lambs from any females early to mid-August at 14-16 weeks of age.

[Marches Farmer]

I, too, separate the lambs at that age.  Generally speaking the ewes coming into season coincides with when one might reasonably expect grass growth to begin n that area, 21 weeks on, so the ewes with new lambs will have grass to support milk production.  Poll Dorsets ignore those rules!  You may find the lambs are no longer suckling anyway.  I like to give the ewes a rest and a chance to put on some condition before Winter arrives. 

[Fleecewife]

We take the males out mid-Aug, and they join the tups, which are out for 11 months and in for only 4 weeks in Nov.  We let the ewes wean their ewe lambs for a few weeks more, enough to give them 2 months to recover and build up their condition prior to tupping.
If you don't want any activity before Bonfire Night, then take all the males and riggs out now.  The mere presence of the males can be enough to trigger oestrus, although unlikely to be this early in Shetlands.

For us, we really really want a lambing period of no more than 4 weeks, although it doesn't usually take that long, maybe 2 or 3.  Lambs born outside that time period are a bit of a nuisance 

[kanisha]

with only four weeks of the rams being in what is your success rate of ewes getting pregnant fleecewife? I currently run to six weeks but that is stretching things a bit for me would quite like to reduce to four weeks if the percentage of ewes not taken isn't too high.

[milliebecks]

Thanks all for the advice. I'll take the boys out now ... better safe than sorry.

Kanisha - last year the tup was in for 6 weeks, but lambing was done in 4. No misses, despite 8 of the 10 ewes being gimmers. Not sure whether I just got lucky .....

[bloomer]

We had 10 we tupped last year, yup was in 6 weeks, lambing took 19 days.


4 of those were glimmers as well.


These were Shetlands with the tip going in on the 6th November...

[Marches Farmer]

with only four weeks of the rams being in what is your success rate of ewes getting pregnant fleecewife? I currently run to six weeks but that is stretching things a bit for me would quite like to reduce to four weeks if the percentage of ewes not taken isn't too high.

I put each shearling or mature tup in with around 40 ewes for 18 days only.  It's years since I had a barrener.  I prefer to put an older tup with first-timers and a shearling with ewes, so at least one half of the equation knows what it's doing.  If I have to send out a ram lamb because we've had a last-minute request for a Southdown hire ram I send one of the oldest and suggest leaving him in with no more than a dozen females for four weeks.  Again, all have taken in that time.

[Fleecewife]

 <<<I prefer to put an older tup with first-timers and a shearling with ewes, so at least one half of the equation knows what it's doing>>>

I love that Marches Farmer.


Yes, we have found 4 weeks is plenty to get all ewes in lamb, as long as it's November.  The exception was when we were breeding Soay, which tend to be a couple of weeks later, so need the extra 2 weeks after everyone else has finished.  The only barren ewe we've had was a Shetland we had just bought who was so fat (and greedy) that we were pleased she missed that year - it was nothing to do with how long the tup was in I don't think, just her unfitness to breed.  Whyever did we buy that ewe  ?  (she had a lovely fleece    Remember to look at the whole sheep Fleecewife  )

[SallyintNorth]

I'm assuming that ewes won't cycle until their lambs are weaned.

You absolutely can't bank on this.  It's a fallacy to say that they can't conceive while they're lactating.

Your riggs could be fertile if the weather turns cold - we were not the only farm around here had some unexpected lambs one May, after sub -10C temperatures in the December!

I left my tup in with my flock right through last year, interested to see what would happen.  First to lamb, as always, was Dora, who is 1/4 Charollais (they can start to cycle in August, or earlier), lambed on March 9th (tupped 13th Oct.).  Next was Pricket, a Manx, tupped 23rd Oct lambed 15th March.  Most of the Shetland X Blue-faced Leicesters lambed before the end of March. Most of the part-commercial gimmers also lambed before the end of March.  (All are at least 1/4 Shetland apart from Puglet, who is Icelandic X Dutch Texel.)

The first of the pure Shetlands lambed on April 2nd, and the last to lamb was first-timer Carrie, a pure Shetland shearling, on April 19th.  Her mother Anya was the last but one to lamb, on April 12th.

Most of the Manxes and Manx crosses were done by the time the pure Shetlands started.  The Castlemilks and Castlemilk crosses were in the middle.  The Sheltand X BFLs were all in March.

Many of my girls lamb on more or less the same day each year, irrespective of when the tup went in, or, indeed, whether he was with them or nearby for a while beforehand.  And several of the daughters lamb within a week of their mothers.

This year, I'll be keeping the tup off them until November.  I am not going to tup many, but one that I do want to tup is Carrie.  I wonder if she'll be last again. 

[SallyintNorth]

I should say that two of my Sheltands came from a flock that lambs in the English Easter school holidays (or not at all), so if the daughters follow the mothers' pattern, or just lamb more or less on their own birthdays, then that might account for the later lambings of the Shetlands and Shetland crosses.  Adding BFL seems to bring the lambing date forwards.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Our ewes start coming into season round about now and its a job keeping rams away, my unsold shearling ram is locked in a building with company as he has a tendancy to be mischevious. I put the ram in at the beginning of November, for April lambing, and I leave him in with them all through winter and spring, I seperate him come shearing time. The ram lambs get seperated round about now and sent off to market. Look at when the days start getting shorter rapidly and they will start coming into season then, they're similar to the buffalo cycle strongest when the days are getting shorter.

[milliebecks]

That's really interesting SallyintNorth ... so breed and individual 'norms' seem to play a big part. Not sure I'm ready to try the same experiment just yet in my shepherding life!

And waterbuffalofarmer ..... I wonder if that means that latitude plays a part too. I'm in the north of Scotland, so days stay longer than in the south until the equinox later in the month. I wonder whether breed or daylight hours has the greater impact.

Anyhoo .... I'm not going to risk it .... the boys are moving in together this weekend!

[kanisha]

Ok Looking at my lambing records the lambs start arriving for the most part at the begining of the third week after the ram went in.  Typically I put the ram in around the 5th of November.

So I'm wondering if I put the ram in later would I be more likely to get ewes cycling earlier  as otherwise looking at my records if I shorten the time the ram is in I will have some ewes not taken.

Have tried teaser ram in the field next door which doesn't seem to make much difference. could just use a little more sleep in the spring time