Author Topic: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha  (Read 19327 times)

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 09:22:03 am »
If you are clever and committed, you could go around all the shops for specific things, but as time is preciouse I don't!! Used to love Leicester Market!!!! a bag of ham bits £1 a Lld and they were like yours Wiz, off the bone, you could also get veggies and fruit very cheap and a bit more tasty than supermarket's and the meat and fish were also good quality, fresh, cheap and brilliant. If I had acsess to Leicester Market here it would be great!!

Hardfeather

  • Guest
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 09:42:27 am »
I've been on many shoots with my dogs, and on training days.  If we see a fox, our guns will take them.  They are NEVER left to die!  The dogs are trained to retrieve 'runners' (winged birds or animals- even foxes)  Our trainers and landowners who offer us the ground for shoots, field trials, and training shot over days, are always very adamant that no pricked game is left to die.

That's all very well on well-run, organised shoots where all participants are inclined to be responsible in the execution of their duties. The real picture is very different.

Foxes are a menace anywhere, and many people care not a jot whether they die a clean death or a lingering one, as long as they die and cease to kill stock. Much of the time a fox will be shot at regardless of how far out he is, or when in thick cover with only a split second to get the barrels onto him, and there are many foxes lost after they have been hit.

Not all fox-killers are armed with guns or rifles. Many people use snares, illegal traps, poison, or gas to kill foxes, and none of these methods are humane.

Quote
I see hunts as a hobby for the participants, not a method of control.  It is much more efficient to go out and shoot them.  The correct animals can be culled that way - old and infirm dog foxes for instance, which might otherwise have a long slow death.

How can anyone identify an old or infirm fox at 40 yards when it is running in cover?

Hunts were, and still are, a selective method of control. Fit, well foxes have a greater chance of survival than do weak, sick, or old ones when hunted with hounds. Hunts were always willing to come out with a few hounds and hunt troublesome foxes in the early morning (when the antis were still in their pits) after the stockman had witnessed their depredations on the lambs or poultry. The hunt would harbour and protect a certain amount of foxes throughout the summer months, as long as they didn't cause problems, so that there would be foxes to hunt come the autumn. Now, without such protection, and with many more hands turned against them, the foxes are killed indiscriminately, and in far greater numbers than pre the 'ban'.

I don't like foxes that much. I have had rare breed poultry killed and have felt the pain, but deep down I am a realist and a conservationist at heart, and I see the value of each link in the food chain. Cats are much more of a threat to native wildlife, as are mink in some areas, than are foxes. Hedgehogs have the potential to devastate populations of ground-nesting birds. However, people have rights, including the one to keep a cat. Regardless of the evidence, they will defend that right to the end over the conservation of wildlife. How many people complain about fox damage but turn a blind eye when Tiddles kills young blue tits or field mice? People also seem to have the right to choose which of the 'pests' they wish to protect, and this even extends to a perceived right to influence parliament on matters of which they know very little, even if it affects other peoples' rights and livelihoods. Ivory towers are the new maisonettes.

Annie, have you, who seem not to be able to prevent your 'well-trained' HPR dogs from molesting your own stock, ever considered the skill and the mutual love and respect required to manage and hunt a kennel of hounds?

« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 09:47:24 am by AengusOg »

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2010, 10:35:32 am »
Well said AegusOg, I agree with the hunt, I also think they do a love of conservation work as well such as maintaining hedge's, gates wildlife etc. There are far worse things going on in the world than a few people, horses and hounds chasing a Fox!!!!

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2010, 10:42:26 am »
Quote
Annie, have you, who seem not to be able to prevent your 'well-trained' HPR dogs from molesting your own stock, ever considered the skill and the mutual love and respect required to manage and hunt a kennel of hounds?
I do not claim my HPR's to be ultra well trained, however they are a little more than partially trained.  They are not spaniels or labradors who respond to every will of their owner, practically from birth (well almost every will), they have a different nature - free spirits even, and are therefore harder to train.  However, they have not 'molested' my birds - only retrieved them to hand unhurt, since they believe them to be 'runners', as they don't fly away.  I admit my GWP is a killer but she is not trained and she is a German breed, they are sharper by nature.  She is brilliant with people though so she is just 'maintained' around my birds.

But I am not the one on trial here!  I love and cherish ALL dogs and if hounds are your 'bag' then I'm fine with that and respect your opinion.

I will say that the only shoots I have been on are organised farm and estate shoots or Field Trials where ALL animals are respected since they are the landowners livelihood.  Getting rid of foxes saves poults would you believe, and a bit of lead shot works wonders! I would not attend a fox rampage or driven shoot - that is neither sport nor fun IMHO, and it would not help my dogs training either letting them push all and sundry out of the woods when they are supposed to point and hold. ;D
As a matter of interest I take it you know what an HPR is and does?

And yes, I have been in France and met packs of hunting hounds and their owners and handlers, and seen the body language between dog and handler.
There is more than one way to kill a fox! I have never disputed that.
I think we should now get back to the original topic - A message to Foxy loxy!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 10:45:06 am by doganjo »
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Hardfeather

  • Guest
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2010, 11:33:53 am »
I do indeed know what the hunt point and retrieve breeds are, and what is required of them. I kept German short-haired pointers many years ago, when I was in gamekeeping, and used them with some success on partridge and grouse. I'm not having a go at you, but I wonder why the 'runners' are not retrieved by labs, retrievers, or even spaniels, which are more suited to that type of task, and whether allowing HPRs to do such work may contribute to their unsteadiness with stock?


Sandy

  • Guest
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2010, 07:52:16 pm »
We went off with all 4 Labs into the woods and met Islay's dad, he is a brilliant gundog!!! his owner loved Rhum and commented it is unusual to use chocolate labs for gundogs but she has something special and we agree, her mum is used for beating and I am sure Rhum would be great too. Labradors are so wonderful, I could easily have loads of them!!

Jackie 2

  • Joined May 2010
  • North Killingholme
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 05:38:16 am »
I would be quite happy to have a gun for the foxes on my land but not the hunt but only because i don't want to scare my livestock.
I love to see a hunt working and the local hunt to me is one of the best in the country (Belvior Hunt) with various royalty attending. We still have the New Years Day hunt gathering in the market place where they get given the stirrup cup.

To keep foxes away from my chickens I've asked the guys who work for me to urinate around the hen house as foxes don't like human scent, so far its worked.

 If it ceases to work I will ask a guy with a gun to come lamping.

What I cannot do is buy a fox trap then kill the fox when its trapped as I don't have a gun powerful enough to kill it, we only have air rifles.
 Besides I couldn't look it in the eyes and then shoot it as they look too much like dogs.

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2010, 07:40:16 am »
The Kennels is only a couple of miles away Jackie. You can see John exercising the hounds down Limber Road of a morning.If you get out the car to talk to him they will get you? and lick you to death very savage are hounds you know! ;D Hunt Days are Wednesdays and Saturdays I'll get you a Meet Card if you would like one
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

Sandy

  • Guest
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 09:15:00 am »
Don't think I could shoot a Fox either!!! maybe I could if it was after my chickens. When I went to visit my family last time at Christmas, I watched the meet on Boxing day on the green in Great Bowden, I took some photos.

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2010, 09:24:00 am »
Yes Sandy First Meet of the season and the Boxing Day Meet are best to watch :farmer: :wave:
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

sheila

  • Joined Apr 2008
  • Mablethorpe Lincolnshire
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2010, 09:31:17 am »
I have been keeping out of this debate, having seen where it can lead, but......... I personally could not hunt any creature. The police once chased a young man into my backgarden. he had been running for some time and was done in. He asked me for a drink of water. I was going to be arrested for giving him one. needless to say I did give him a drink, but he just reminded me of a hunted fox. I still shudder at the memory.

Wizard

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • North East Lincolnshire
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2010, 09:59:52 am »
Well I hope a rat with Rabies doesn't jump ashore in Immingham and get caught by one of the dozens of foxes living there.Perhaps if one of these fox loving people get rabies they and their supporters will change their minds.The one that was bitten will not change their mind because if they survive they will  say it was an off chance happening.I don't think.Oh no a fox wont bite you.Really? No what it does is turn your bin out and like sort of lick the bean tin clean.You being a tidy person pick up the mess and scratch yourself with a tin and who has Rabies now as well as the fox and never been near a Rabid fox or dog.Shoot the lot to near extinction Just have a little few we don't need to be over run with the things and badgers as well ??? :farmer:
Don't do today what can be put off until tomorrow because today will be yesterday tomorrow

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2010, 10:19:11 am »
I'd rather they were shot without fear than be chased in terror then ripped to shreds!
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

sheila

  • Joined Apr 2008
  • Mablethorpe Lincolnshire
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2010, 10:42:04 am »
Thank you for being more articulate then me doganjo. Thats exactly what I wanted to say. Wizard why not concentrate on killing the rat that spreads disease rather then the poor animal that picks it up?

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
Re: A message to Foxy loxy, ha ha ha
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2010, 10:46:15 am »
I had a wee smile at that, Sheila - articulate I am, but usually get tagged with blunt as well! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

 

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