[Chrissykelly482]

Any one any pointers on training a collie  first timer 

[waterbuffalofarmer]

agility or farming? Border, beardie or red welsh? There are some really useful vids on youtube about training borders. what age is your dog? Beardies and borders tend to start work at a year old or a bit younger and red welsh or welsh sheepdogs start typically at a year and a half. borders work mostly off command. The welsh works with its own initiative is looseyed and needs less commanding, if it knows what its doing. Beardies stalk the sheep and then work half between a welsh and border. Hope this helps

[waterbuffalofarmer]

it may aldo be worth getting in touch witb various societies, or breeders, they should be able to help

[SallyintNorth]

borders work mostly off command. The welsh works with its own initiative is looseyed and needs less commanding, if it knows what its doing.

I don't know where you get that idea about borders, wbf.  They're controllable using commands, yes, but they only need guidance when it's a new job or if you particularly want to be involved.

Watching my two perform is one of my greatest joys.  They know all the kinks and wrinkles; go off and block gateways, position themselves to turn the sheep at a junctions, guide the sheep past stopped vehicles - just brilliant. 

Chrissykelly482, if you do a search on 'Scrimgeour', you'll find most of the threads where we've discussed training working collies before - because I pretty much always chip in with how much I like Derek Scrimgeour's methods, and recommend his books and DVDs - and clinics, if you're in or near Cumbria.

[shygirl]

im going to attempt to train my working beardie. she has shown ability with the goats. although slightly bonkers in other ways.

[Marches Farmer]

I once went to a sheepdog training session and there was a beardie that had never seen a sheep before and by the end of the session she was working faultlessly to Away and Come By.  There are trainers around that you can take your dog to for evaluation, although this particular chap said he didn't think much of ours (red Welsh with strong opinions of his own!)  However, five weeks with Alison Smith and further training from my son made him good enough to consider competition.

[shygirl]

how do you teach away and come by?
ours is 8 mths and basically untouched due to me doing ridiculous overtime in my old job. we have a lot of catching up to do. she is from a working sheep farm.

[Jullienne]

I have heard that about red welsh too, they do really think for themselves and can be very difficult to control at times. I have an old red welsh myself and hardly have to command her she just knows what she is doing. Always preferred red welsh to border collies, red welsh are loose eyed and don't fix onto the sheep by stalking them, I really hate it when they do that, it makes me think of watching a predator with its prey; gives me the shivers every time
Although they can be a little more difficult to train, depending on what animal you get of the breed, they are experts at the job and I personally wouldn't be without one. What breed of dog do you have?

[SallyintNorth]

how do you teach away and come by?
ours is 8 mths and basically untouched due to me doing ridiculous overtime in my old job. we have a lot of catching up to do. she is from a working sheep farm.

If you read some of the other threads, this is all discussed at some length.

Basically, the dog will have the behaviours naturally; the best way to train (IMO) is to get the dog doing the behaviour then 'put a word on it'.  If you're not confident to do at yourself initially, find yourself a local trainer whose methods you like, and take the dog to them.  They'll train you and the dog, of course

[YorkshireLass]

Get on youtube and doodle around until you find a trainer/style tht speaks to you. Personally I like Thomas Longton and Nij Vyas in particular, but I've not seen much of any others. Bear in mind different dogs will fit different teachers, much like humans do.
The way I was shown involved using body language to send the dog one way or another around the sheep, and then associate the movement with the word.

how do you teach away and come by?
ours is 8 mths and basically untouched due to me doing ridiculous overtime in my old job. we have a lot of catching up to do. she is from a working sheep farm.

[Marches Farmer]

If you hold a crook out to the side you don't want the dog to go, blocking it visually, it can help some get the hint.

[SallyintNorth]

how do you teach away and come by?

The way I was shown involved using body language to send the dog one way or another around the sheep, and then associate the movement with the word.

That's exactly what Derek Scrimgeour does.  I thought Tom Longton used a round pen, and ran the dog around the outside of the pen in the direction he wanted?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I read this womans book and it is a mine of info. http://www.katycropper.co.uk/

[YorkshireLass]

how do you teach away and come by?

The way I was shown involved using body language to send the dog one way or another around the sheep, and then associate the movement with the word.

That's exactly what Derek Scrimgeour does.  I thought Tom Longton used a round pen, and ran the dog around the outside of the pen in the direction he wanted?

I went to TL for subsequent training
Really, any trainer who isn't a bully is worth studying.

I've seen some excellent dogs started by Katy Cropper.

In fact, I would recommend OP takes their dog to a short training course, half thetraining is teaching the handler what to do or how to problem-solve