Author Topic: The point of conceptioN  (Read 3774 times)

Jethro Tull

  • Joined Jan 2014
The point of conceptioN
« on: April 07, 2016, 05:23:07 am »
Two of our ewes had triplets. The first delivered a lamb at 11am and two more arrived 4 hours later. In the meanwhile she had cleaned and fed the first and they were doing fine. When the other two arrived she ignored them, and wouldn't let them feed. Eventually we took them in and they have just bombed along

Second ewe bore three in quick succession, fed two and rejected the third leaving a soggy mess by the fence. Took it in, it was tiny, it has taken over two weeks for it to reach the birth size and weight of its siblings and for its horn buds to appear. Only in the past 72 hours has it started to drink recommended milk qualities

What I want to know is this. Is it possible (it is counter intuitive) that this triplet was conceived later than its siblings, eg in a subsequent oestrus, so that even though it was delivered at the same time as its siblings it was actually 17 days premature?

Don't laugh at me. I "know" that's not possible, but it fits the facts

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 08:07:05 am »
No I dont think so. Once an animal or human has concieved the entrance to the womb closes. What usually happens with triplets is 2 of the lambs are bigger than the third, either due to how the ewe is fed or how she is feeding them. It isnt that rare to get a tiny triplet, I myself have had a few whose bros and sises are really big; In fact I have one atm that tiny. It just means they will need longer on the bottle and feeding up more, but if theyre good and strong they usually make it. Hope this helps and does it answer your question?
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 08:48:30 am »
A friend had a cow that had a second calf three months after calving, both calves healthy and well.  The first was to a dairy bull by AI and the second to the Limousin sweeper bull they used.  The vet said it was very rare but could happen...

Jukes Mum

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • North Yorkshire
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 10:41:16 am »
I would not have thought that a lamb 17 days early would be viable.
When our little orphan Annie was delivered by C-Section 8 days early, the vet said that was really about the limit as the lungs are not developed enough before that.
Don’t Monkey With Another Monkey’s Monkey

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 12:12:12 pm »
They can catch by multiple rams in same cycle, but not beyond that I don't think?

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 01:10:41 pm »
UNEVEN  sized triplets are common , the womb only has 2 compartments  and you get 1 lamb in one side and 2 in the other

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 02:51:47 pm »
Yup, depends on how many placental "buttons" the lamb has access to.  Unlike humans bovines have many mini placentas - the more the better for survivability.

mowhaugh

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Scottish Borders
    • Facebook
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 07:51:31 pm »
I had that exact thing happen today! A pair of twins, but one clearly 'younger'. Not just smaller, I'm very familiar with that, but had been conceived later, and was premature, looked like a late abortion in proportion etc. It did live briefly, but did not survive. I've seen it quite a bit in cats, but this is my first experience of it in sheep, and I've lambed a lot.

Beeducked

  • Joined Jan 2012
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 08:05:14 pm »
I have also had a very mismatched pair of twins and the titchy one almost looked like a prem. I assume this is due to an uneven distribution of cotyledons, the placental units. I would have assumed that even if 2 different times of conception was possible, that if born at the same time the prem would die. There are studies showing that lambs born even a week early do not survive.

Jethro Tull

  • Joined Jan 2014
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2016, 12:28:33 am »
Well I've been busy tagging and daggin all day but I just got into bed to look at your answers. I read them to Frau Tull and we both thought what a varied, informative and interesting set of responses with much food for thought.

Meanwhile little Wiggle is doing very well, but I didn't have the heart to tag him today

Old Shep

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • North Yorkshire
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2016, 10:11:01 pm »
It is quite normal for one triplet to be much smaller than the others.  It is also common for one triplet to be reabsorbed if the environment isn't good enough to support all three.  So in my mind the ewe's body will support two and be prepared to ditch the third if needs be. So the third being smaller wouldn't be down to conception timing but down to the ewe's body's ability to cope with a multiple birth.  We have had two sets of quads this year, 5 out of 8 died,  and neither ewe could raise enough milk to feed even one!
Helen - (used to be just Shep).  Gordon Setters, Border Collies and chief lambing assistant to BigBennyShep.

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: The point of conceptioN
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2016, 01:05:43 pm »
No problems with quads , even sized and plenty of milk  ,    1KG day concs  for last month + lifeline + silage

 

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