[Buffy the eggs layer]

My boys got on great together for the first couple of years until the younger one grew up a bit. They started cracking skulls last May and at first I just expected the cut heads and jarred necks would stop but after witnessing them clash with such force that my younger boy (he is a big mature adult ram, hes just younger than the other one) dropped to his knees and had to crawl about until his head cleared I wimped out and called him out of the field.


They have been separate since as any attempts to have them next each other in separate paddocks results in bowed wire and bloody heads.


I have a 2015 ram lamb in with the younger of the two at present and they get on just fine and clearly enjoy each others company. I would like to try and reintroduce my older ram again ( while I dont have to worry about flies in their cut heads ) and have read that three rams can defuse conflict that can arise between two.


Any experience or tips for reintroducing hornless scrappers?


Its probably worth mentioning that these guys are very gentle with lambs, ewes and with me. They never attempt to charge, threaten or head butt me and are calm and confident with being handled. Here they are in the days before they decided to kill each other

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Has anyone tried these? It's a ram shield and restricts forward vision therefore preventing a ram charging at another ram. Apparently you can use it short term during tupping ( if using multiple rams) or to prevent an aggressive ram attacking you ( personally I find the butcher is the safest solution to that one )


The idea would be that the rams wear them each time you reintroduce them after separation at tupping. once they get used to each others smell and presence you take them off . I have a couple of webbing headcollars for my sheep....I wonder if I could have a go at making two....

[Buttermilk]

I know someone who had one on a bull for safe handling.  I think they would work with sheep but I would be tempted to leave it on full time while they are together as you would not like to find the youngest with a broken neck one morning.

[nimbusllama]

If you use a ram mask you only need one, because the threat is removed, and the one in the mask won't square up to the other one.  I used one on one of 2 texel brothers about 20 years ago, very successfully. 

[Marches Farmer]

Like Buffy, I find culling the best solution and would never breed from a ram demonstrating aggression to any class of sheep outside the tupping season.

[kanisha]

was advised that two rams if they decide to fight are like boxers and will square up to each other and the possible end result is they kill each other. With a third ram  they can't fully commit to the one ram in case the third sneaks in and gets them from behind hence its always better to have three rams rather than two.  Try them in a small space so they can't get a run up until they work it out with pushing and shoving and never leave the two of them alone.

[Buffy the eggs layer]

So would you kill any rams that challenge each other outside of the tupping period Marches? My rams would tup a ewe any time she is cycling so thats pretty much all year round for those who arnt lactating or in lamb.


My older boy used to live with a more dominant older ram with a minimal amount of head trauma so I know he can coexist. I'm not sure if this tension arose between him and my other ram when my younger ram challenged the pecking order...At the moment it very much appears to be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.....and as they are reasonably well matched physically this would mean dispatching them both.


I was thinking of using a shield on both to avoid one having an unfair advantage and butting the other in the sides.......

[Marches Farmer]

So would you kill any rams that challenge each other outside of the tupping period Marches? My rams would tup a ewe any time she is cycling so thats pretty much all year round for those who arnt lactating or in lamb.

My older boy used to live with a more dominant older ram with a minimal amount of head trauma so I know he can coexist. I'm not sure if this tension arose between him and my other ram when my younger ram challenged the pecking order...At the moment it very much appears to be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.....and as they are reasonably well matched physically this would mean dispatching them both.

Unless you keep a breed that is receptive all year round there will be a non-cycling period for the ewes.  Rams will measure themselves up against each other occasionally but out-of-season serious sparring is a cullable offence in our flock.  The shearlings will always tend to test the mettle of the older rams to see if they're ready to step down. 

[nimbusllama]

If you do try making one or more of these maybe these pictures will help.... the leather front needs to be fairly thick so it kinks over the face and allows vision through the side.  I did leave the mask on one ram permanently until they were sold.

[Talana]

Put them in a small pen together they may scrap a little but can't do any damage, then after a day or to they can go out together. That's what we do.

[kelly58]

When the boys have done their stuff....... we catch the both of them ( Castlemilk Moorit)  and spray them with diluted Jeyes fluid all over...under everywere . they both stink the same so no fighting ! Works for us 
Could l ask while where on the subject of tups butting.............
My Southdown tup is in with his ladies, all fine and dandy. Yesterday he started butting a fence post like he was challenging it Had to go out and stop him. This morning he was at it again on a different post, any ideas pls ?
Hes  usually a quiet lad

[pharnorth]

Maybe he is in pain?

[kelly58]

Is that what they do when in pain, give themselves more pain 
Theres nothing the other side of their paddock so hes not threatening anything else.
How could l find out what pain ? 

[Buffy the eggs layer]

one of my rams argues with low hanging tree branches and saplings. He dosent charge at them but he tries to butt them and side swipes them. I thought it was pent up frustration. Could the post smell of something musky? like fox or cat pee? The musk of another ram perhaps?


Re the mask nimbus, the horned ram one seemed a better fit. I did see the pic you posted on line and thought it looked a bit big. Perhaps thats how it needs to be? Where did you buy yours from and how long did your ram wear it for?


Kelly I was thinking about spraying them with something neutral as the older boy smells of ram musk pretty much all year but the other one dosent. I'm guessing that I would need to spray the ram lamb too.


Talana we recently transported them a short 3 mile journet in the cattle trailer with the dividing particion between them. There isnt much room for them to take more than two steps back before making a charge but the younger one had managed to buckle the cattle divider before we could get the ramp down. 


I have seen the close proximity thing done with horned breeds and it seems to work though. Oh they are such a pain. [size=78%] [/size]

[nimbusllama]

Buffy
I agree the mask on the polled ram does look a bit big, but I think that is how mine was. I can't remember where I got it, as it was 20 years ago.  The texel ram wore it for a month or so until they were both sold.  They were quite tame so it was easy to check that it was not rubbing.
Kelly
Interesting that it is your Southdown ram that is challenging your fence posts, and not your CM's, as my CM wrecks all my fencing by charging at each post that is not broken!  I thought it was a breed thing.  I solved it with a couple of strands of electric fence round the paddock he is in.