[Rhea]

We're aiming to get started with sheep this year, and have four paddocks fenced, each about an acre. We've been thinking about this for a while, and have narrowed it down to two breeds we'd like to keep - Castlemilk Moorits and Balwens. 

There are several smallholders nearby who keep Castlemilks so it would be easy to get advice, source a starter flock and get access to a ram in future, so it seems like a really sensible breed for us (as well as them being nice sheep!) But, I really really want to keep Balwens as well

So - would it be the worst idea ever to buy a small flock of each to begin with? I don't want to lamb next year (need to build experience before I go through that), so we'd have a bit of time to get used to them both and work out what we want to do long term.

I know if we kept both flocks going there would be more juggling around for lambing, but we will have access to another 2 acres before then. I'm not sure if these breeds would flock together or we'd end up with two small groups at opposite ends of the field?

Any advice appreciated 
 

[Foobar]

You could start with just the one breed for the first year and see how you get on.  If you want to breed pure you will need two rams if you have two breeds, so you need to allow for the extra mouth to feed.


I'd advise buying "couples" in the spring, that's ewes with newly born lambs.  So you get the experience of dealing with growing lambs but without the headache of actually having to lamb them in your first year.

[Fleecewife]

We have kept several breeds over the years, together or alone.  There have been no problems as we have room for several tups.  The only slight problem is fence hopping, but you will recognise lambs which are crosses of your two breeds.If the two breeds have each come from a different flock, then initially yes, they won't mix for a bit, but that soon changes and they'll all run together.

With two breeds you of course need to use two rams, but if you could borrow them then you would only have a slight problem for a month or so each year, when you would have two paddocks in use for separate tupping. Try if possible to ensure they don't share a long fence, as they will destroy it with fighting.  If you buy your own tups (which you wouldn't need to do in your first, non breeding year, then you will need a separate paddock for them for the whole year.  It's perfectly possible to do.

Both are hardy breeds so would lamb outdoors, and don't need to be separated for that.  Sometimes one breed can be dominant over the other, but I think the two you have chosen would be fine.

In the winter, we allow all our ewes and hogs to run together, with all the paddock gates open - they love to have the choice of which bit to graze next, and quickly develop a routine, so we know where they'll be at any time.

[daveh]

I keep Castlemilk Moorits and Cotswold sheep. I find that the CMs don't seem to think they are sheep. They don't squabble with the Cotswolds and will eat from the same trough without any problems. But they separate off and graze in their own group. This can be very handy if you wish to manage one group without the other being involved.

Regards, David

[Womble]

I'm not sure about CMs and Balwens, but I do know that our Manx Loaghtans and Zwartbles didn't mix. The biggest challenge was that they needed different care and feeding, and whilst we got around that last year by having the Manxs following the Zs around, it wasn't a long term solution. Also the Zs flock together like er, sheep, and would come into the house if they could, whereas the Manxs scattered if a leaf fell in the next county.


In the end, we decided it was all too much hassle, and just keep Zs now. Your mileage may vary of course!

[Marches Farmer]

Our Badger Face stick together only when they're pregnant and mix in with the Southdowns the rest of the year.  How many sheep are you thinking of keeping?  4 x 1 acre paddocks will be too small for standard haymaking kit and will almost certainly be grazed out by even a small number of sheep by early Winter.  You'll probably need to buy and store hay and have a field hayrack system, bearing in mind keeping it in a fixed position will poach the ground.  Even if the grass grows quite long at some times of year the feed value wll be poor and the bottom leaves will rot in Autumn and Winter.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

if you're going to keep 2 flocks wouldn't it be easier to borrow rams and alternate the two breeds each year, so say one year you cross the cm with the balwen and the next the opposite way around and just sell off the crossbreds, or kill them? Instead of having to seperate the two flocks in order to put the rams in? Just a thought

[SallyintNorth]

With only 4-6 acres, it could be tricky to manage the two separately if they need it - and Castlemilks can be a bit, shall we say, assertive, with other sheep.  I'd always be cautious mixing polled and horned ewes, so personally I think I wouldn't start out with those two breeds.

Castlemilks can be delightful sheep, but I think I wouldn't advise anyone to get them who doesn't love them to begin with.  Some of the things we have to do with sheep, and some of the problems we get trying, are so very much harder and more stressful for all concerned if you don't really like the sheep you're working with.

So my advice would be to get some boring little white store sheep for your first year, to learn the basics of sheepkeeping - there may even be a local farmer who can supply pet lambs for you to rear, but make sure your other local smallholders can vouch for his/her lambs, that they'll have been given a proper start.

Then, once you know a little, buy the sheep you really like.

Just two other things I'll say - if either of you spins or fancies spinning, then that might push you away from the Balwens.  You can spin Balwen, and it's great for hard-wearing items such as bags and mats, but on the basis of the batt I had, it's not something you would make your own jumpers out of, and personally I didn't enjoy spinning it very much.  (And I'm not a person who thinks all fibre must be fine and soft, by any means, but this was a bit close to Brillo for my taste!)

Having said which, Castlemilk isn't a novice spin, and not all Castlemilks have great fleece for spinning - but the good ones are divine.

My final comment is that, if you do decide to go two breeds, one option for breeding would be to have a Balwen tup at home and send the CM girls to your neighbour's tup, if your neighbour was agreeable.  You could always buy tups between you, on the understanding that your girls go to your neighbour's spot for tupping.  Just a thought. 

[Rhea]

Thanks for the advice. At the moment we're mainly keeping the sheep for meat, but it's always nice to have some options in terms of the fleece.

We live in an area with mainly smallholders so the Castlemilks are probably the equivalent of the local boring sheep! We'd have great local support, they taste great, arranging a ram would be soooo simple.....

It's interesting to think about mixing polled and horned ewes, I'd so far just considered their relative sizes and needs which don't seem so different.

I was hoping there would be more reasons to not start with a mixed flock to really put me off. I'm expecting we would find we really liked one of the breeds after keeping them a few months and not breed/put into the freezer the other but with no experience it's hard to make the call. But it's a very nice problem to have given what some people are going through this winter 

[TheSmilingSheep]

We keep Balwens and Shetlands - very modest flock size.  This year we've put 11 Balwens and 6 Shetland ewes to a Balwen ram.... we'll see what colour the crosses turn out in April....  No problem mixing them at all, though different temperaments...  But sounded like a sensible observation about additional complications of polled and horned...

[Rhea]

Thanks all - we're going to have proper chats with local breeders of both and try to make a decision between them to make life easier for now. I look forward to putting some pictures on here later in the year