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Author Topic: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views  (Read 13133 times)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2015, 11:31:49 am »
I'll extract some one-liners from your post, Foobar.  Thanks for the thoughts.

I certainly would like more information about exactly what all of the techniques involve, as I have very little firsthand knowledge of any of them in cattle or pigs, and none in sheep.

I didn't realise there were two different hormonal treatments, but from your post it would seem that sponges are akin to the pill, deferring ovulation until removed, whereas PMSG brings ovulation on? or just forward?

A friend worked on a farm that uses invasive AI.  He seemed to be of the view that the type of AI I am used to in pigs and cattle doesn't work in sheep, so there is a technique that injects the semen directly into the fallopian tube, through a small incision made in the body wall.

We also know that flushing and embryo transfer / surrogacy is now happening in commercial sheep too, and sheep such as the Valais Blacknose.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 11:42:09 am by SallyintNorth »
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2015, 11:34:39 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


Sponging may be akin to the contraceptive pill - but a human female is taking a personal decision to take the risks involved.



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2015, 11:35:33 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


Synchronising breeding can improve welfare throughout pregnancy and at lambing



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2015, 11:37:12 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


Synchronising pregnancy and lambing fundamentally interfere with sheep's natural biorhythms and behaviours



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2015, 11:38:15 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


I don't agree with bringing on labour just for our own convenience.



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2015, 11:39:23 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


Sometimes it is better for the flock for a shepherd to lamb a ewe, and get a good night's sleep, than to wait up several hours for her to do it naturally



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2015, 11:40:23 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


We shouldn't be doing non-invasive AI just for our own convenience.



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2015, 11:43:35 am »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


I have no issue with using non-invasive AI.



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

pharnorth

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Cambridgeshire
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2015, 02:01:19 pm »
It's an interesting survey Sally. I thought hard about it and finally just 'liked' the 'people should keep,their noses out' question. Why?  Because for the most part decisions people make has to be made in their own context.  I am going essentially natural with the whole cycle because I can, only a small flock, and can be around throughout lambing BUT I am a single pair of hands so I may find in future years some of these interventions may help me reduce risk for my sheep and lambs.  And I am not the best late into the night!  So what I need is really good advice and war stories from people who have tried different things and it does not help if they feel pre-judged.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2015, 02:27:37 pm »
I have had a long think about this one..... My answer would be I definitely agree with AI'ing sheep. I am hoping to do it in a few years, when my flock is better. Not only is it good for people who would rather not have a ram, but it improves genetics cheaper than the cost of a ram and it is a lot quicker for people to reach their goal in the sheep breeding process. There sadly is one downfall to this, the downfall being that too much AI of top quality genetics thins the bloodlines, meaning that the particular breeds of sheep most AI'd become an endangered species. Its what has happened with the black and whites. Diversity is essential, so AI'ing would be a big yes, but a bit of a no too.
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2015, 03:07:01 pm »
I had a very interesting chat with a geneticist I was stewarding for at the Royal Three Counties this year.  She pointed out that when you continuously select for one trait, such as fast finishing, double muscling or milk production, you may also select out other traits such as fertility, longevity and robust health.  We now have the knowledge and veterinary medicines to overcome, to some degree, the natural selection process that took place in centuries past.

As a breeder of the rarest of rare breeds and bloodlines within those breeds I do not use any AI or similar treatments.

mowhaugh

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Scottish Borders
    • Facebook
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2015, 05:31:45 pm »
Brilliant topic. I am going to be doing a lot of thinking.  The only ones I instantly knew how I felt were "I have reservations about invasive AI" - I do, and "AI is used in cattle all the time, this is no different" - I disagree, due to different techniques. Lots of food for thought.  We do not use AI, but my dad does.  I have assisted on 'AI days' with sheep and cattle, the cattle I feel fine about, the sheep I wouldn't wish to be involved in again, due to the different processes. But then I recognise this is rather hypocritical, as I don't like the use of the electroejaculator on the bulls, but I don't see that if just helping with the cows. Hmm.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 06:13:02 pm by mowhaugh »

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2015, 05:55:53 pm »
Statement - please click 'Like' if you agree


Sponging may be akin to the contraceptive pill - but a human female is taking a personal decision to take the risks involved.



Note, this statement may or may not be the view of the author. 


And the offspring aren't butchered

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2015, 05:57:25 pm »
I have had a long think about this one..... My answer would be I definitely agree with AI'ing sheep. I am hoping to do it in a few years, when my flock is better. Not only is it good for people who would rather not have a ram, but it improves genetics cheaper than the cost of a ram and it is a lot quicker for people to reach their goal in the sheep breeding process. There sadly is one downfall to this, the downfall being that too much AI of top quality genetics thins the bloodlines, meaning that the particular breeds of sheep most AI'd become an endangered species. Its what has happened with the black and whites. Diversity is essential, so AI'ing would be a big yes, but a bit of a no too.

60% conception to frozen semen - you would still need a ram

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: AI and other breeding interventions in sheep - views
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2015, 06:31:39 pm »
I have assisted on 'AI days' with sheep and cattle, the cattle I feel fine about, the sheep I wouldn't wish to be involved in again, due to the different processes.

As you have actually witnessed sheep AI - would you be able to describe it? 

But then I recognise this is rather hypocritical, as I don't like the use of the electroejaculator on the bulls, but I don't see that if just helping with the cows. Hmm.

I bet most of us don't think about that side of it.  We had to have our bull fertility tested, and BH wouldn't put him through it twice, preferring to wait and see what happened.  (He's fine, he's a grand bull  :relief:)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

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