[farmers wife]

If I need to feed my 18m old AA bull with 16% protein - How would you do this if 1. Organic and or 2. grain free.  We've always given a bucket of cereal to bulls however we are now trying to be grain free and in organic conversion. How do I get the 16% as alfalfa pellets are only 12%?

[Buttermilk]

Does he need a high protein diet?  I remember going round the bull unit at Whenby where a lot of AI Bulls lived and they only got fed grass nuts.

[Backinwellies]

I was wondering why he needed high protein too.

[farmers wife]

My understanding is that young bulls need 16% whenever you see commercial supplements then this is what is required. Unless I have read this wrong and 12-14% should suffice.  I have had terrible difficulty in obtaining information on this - most data is based on stuffing cereals in large quantities per day based on the required weight gain.


If anyone has additional data that would be beneficial as our AA is looking a bit skinny.

[Buttermilk]

It is not the protein that puts on weight but the energy in the feed.  Barley beef units have fast growth rates needed for a quick finish, on holstein bulls, but a bull to be kept does not need pushing to the same extent otherwise he could have health problems as he grows more mature.

[landroverroy]

I'm assuming this bull is destined to be sold fat, rather than for breeding.
Without wishing to sound bleak  he should have been kept growing up to now as you will never get a top quality carcase from an animal that has not achieved optimum (not necessarily maximum) growth during its initial growing phase.
So, at this time of year, when grass growth has been reasonable, is he thin because you've been short of grass, or has he been inside on restricted rations, or is there some cause such as worms or mineral deficiency,  to explain why he looks skinny?    If it's either of the latter then obviously it needs to be addressed before you go any further. If it's due to restriction of diet, then for an animal that is never now going to top the market, there seems little point in going along the "no cereals" route. How will this gain you any advantage?
As mentioned by  Buttermilk, you need to be looking at a feed high in energy at this stage in order to get him finished. And that means high in cereals. 16% protein diets are for muscle growth in younger animals that are still growing. 12 - 14% protein is adequate for your lad, and you want to be aiming for about 12%ME (energy).

[Cowgirl]

Surely he is a breeding bull at that age? Abattoirs don't usually accept prime bulls over 16 months, do they?
I agree he needs a health check if he is skinny, unless he has been mating a lot of cows already. Native bred animals should be fat at grass - they should not need any concentrate feed at all. If he does, the protein level isn't as important as energy, as has been said already.

[farmers wife]

He is a AA breeding bull, 18m old been with the heifers, been striped grazed on plenty of grass (amazing grass actually as understocked) Had minerals on site , brought in not looking as good as we had hoped and paid for.  Breed plenty of bulls prev but they had cereals now that we are pasture fed need to make sure he is having the best for the future, Sorry perhaps skinny is a poor description - he isnt something to glory at far from skinny just not beefy enough. 


Going to get a sample and do an egg count tomorrow but I dont think its worming he needs.

[landroverroy]

Oh right. 
So if he's been with quite a few heifers, then he could just have tired himself out! I would suggest then that now presumably he's getting a rest and if you just put him on good grass with some cereal to supplement that he should come on ok. If you definitely don't want to feed him cereal, then sugar beet pulp is suitably high in energy, but don't know how that fits in with your organic status.
Still seems strange though that he's lost condition over summer, unless you've had him with dozens of heifers to deal with.  I've got a young Hereford bull that's about 15 months old now and has been running with 9 cows all summer and has carried on growing and not lost any condition since I bought him in May. He had just been fed, by the breeder on grass and haylage.
Could be that your bull has been raised mainly on concentrates to make him look good at point of sale, but he hasn't got the rumen development to efficiently make use of a grass only diet. 
 
Cowgirl - we keep most of our young bulls entire and sell them fat in the market at up to 30 months with no problem.