[Porterlauren]

Without wanting to upset you. . . . i'm not sure how many honest people would describe traditional breed pigs as having 'excellent conformation'.

[HappyHippy]

Without wanting to upset you. . . . i'm not sure how many honest people would describe traditional breed pigs as having 'excellent conformation'.

True, traditional breeds don't have the number of teats and double muscling on the carcass that the commercials have - but the commercials wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the genetics of the traditional breeds.... I have seen traditional breeds with excellent confirmation and I've seen hybrids that look bloody awful (and vice versa obviously  )

I think if you want to make money from pigs (serious amounts of it, rather than a little excess every few months) the only way to go is big scale with indoor commercial breeds. Doing this gives you a consistent carcass, faster growth rates and a more of a market for selling/supplying than you're going to easily find for traditional breeds which just wouldn't do as well with that kind of set up.
If you want to keep a few nice pigs in their natural environment and in a high health/high welfare setting then pedigree traditional breeds are the way to go. Ideally suited to outdoor living these are breeds that have been around for hundreds of years and have consistent traits and the breeding records to prove it (as opposed to having been engineered from multiple breeds to give a fast growing, prolific dam and fast growing lean pigs) You might not make your fortune from them, but they should pay for themselves reasonably quickly and with a little creative thinking and good marketing, you'll make a small profit (eventually!) but more than that, you're preserving a little piece of history and keeping bloodlines going - this IMHO is worth way more than the bottom line.
But it's horses for courses and everyone has their own reasons and motivation for keeping pigs. For me, it's just because I like having them around   

[hughesy]

There seems to be an assumption that the big boys in the pig industry are making all the money. In reality the price a commercial producer gets for his pigs is less than the cost of production and has been for some time. Pigs are traded as a commodity and prices are set well in advance with contracts in place. The UK is swamped with European pork imported as cheap as chips. It's the processors and the retailers that make the profits, not the farmers.
For the small producer of a quality product it's all about selling into the right marketplace. You are in control of what you produce, when you produce it and the price you charge for it. There would be a lot of big pork producers who'd give their right arm for that.

[greenbeast]

We've just started a small free range pig farm this year. Only looking to max out a 140 population. We are certainly hoping to make some money (it needs to support me!)

At this scale you have to take pigs from conception to customer really. breeding keeps weaner costs down and being about to market the produce to end customers means you are not at the mercy of the market.

[Buffy the eggs layer]

For me the the business case for rearing your own meat on a modest scale is if you can put flavoursom, slow matured, high welfare meat in the freezer ( or in a friends freezer) for less than it costs to buy mass produced, tasteless, low welfare meat from the supermarket or butcher then it stacks up.


Making it viable though does require resourcefulness and creativity both in marketing and cost efficiency without compromising welfare. If you have to pay through the nose for everything and dont intend to keep enough stock to justify the initial set up costs then its not a good idea.


Having said all that however, wheather you are keeping 2 or 2000 of any animal, you owe it to yourself and them to choose an animal that you respect and admire as there are are times when care and compassion will need to out weigh costs and budget calculations.

[clydesdaleclopper]

You need to think about which breeds you are going to use and how you are going to keep them. I'm not an experienced pig keeper as we are only on our second lot of pigs but there has been a huge difference in costs for feed for the two lots. the first were 3 Berkshires and they had about 1/4 acre of grazing. They consumed a LOT of bought in feed and that put me off keeping pigs again and we didn't for years. We now have 3 Kune Kunes in 1 1/2 acres. They are getting very little bought in feed and are only getting a small quantity of bruised barley and spare milk from the goats. They are so much cheaper to feed.

[greenbeast]

how did they consume more? were you not measuring it out?
1lb/day/month of age

[harmony]

The difficulty for small pork producers and pig breeders most smallholders are just not realistic about their costs and sell their weaners and products below the cost of production. Those who seem happy to subsidise their customers make it difficult for those who have done their homework to sell realistically as they are always being undercut.

[hughesy]

You need to think about which breeds you are going to use and how you are going to keep them. I'm not an experienced pig keeper as we are only on our second lot of pigs but there has been a huge difference in costs for feed for the two lots. the first were 3 Berkshires and they had about 1/4 acre of grazing. They consumed a LOT of bought in feed and that put me off keeping pigs again and we didn't for years. We now have 3 Kune Kunes in 1 1/2 acres. They are getting very little bought in feed and are only getting a small quantity of bruised barley and spare milk from the goats. They are so much cheaper to feed.

But they take twice as long to finish. Plus they become sexually mature long before they hit a reasonable slaughter weight so other things need to be considered such as castration of the boars etc. tbh I've never heard of anyone having a serious pork business that uses KK's. Most of our native breeds however can be used successfully. Atributes required are things like the ability to rear a decent sized litter, hardiness so you don't have the vet round every five minutes, and growth rate v. food consumption. You will soon develop the art of feeding a pig right to get a decent carcass. There's a lot to learn but none of it is rocket science.

[hughesy]

The difficulty for small pork producers and pig breeders most smallholders are just not realistic about their costs and sell their weaners and products below the cost of production. Those who seem happy to subsidise their customers make it difficult for those who have done their homework to sell realistically as they are always being undercut.

That is a very valid point. I was told by a customer of ours a few weeks ago that a neighbour of his had offered him a half pig for 60 quid. I explained the economics to him and he is still a customer of ours, preferring to support a local business than just get something cheap. We don't charge ridiculous prices like you see on some places but we're a fair bit more expensive than the supermarkets. Most of our customers appreciate that they're buying a genuine local product that has been brought to them with care and is superior in every way to the mass produced stuff.

[clydesdaleclopper]

how did they consume more? were you not measuring it out?
1lb/day/month of age

Because KKs do not need as much hard feed

[greenbeast]

The difficulty for small pork producers and pig breeders most smallholders are just not realistic about their costs and sell their weaners and products below the cost of production. Those who seem happy to subsidise their customers make it difficult for those who have done their homework to sell realistically as they are always being undercut.

That is a very valid point. I was told by a customer of ours a few weeks ago that a neighbour of his had offered him a half pig for 60 quid. I explained the economics to him and he is still a customer of ours, preferring to support a local business than just get something cheap. We don't charge ridiculous prices like you see on some places but we're a fair bit more expensive than the supermarkets. Most of our customers appreciate that they're buying a genuine local product that has been brought to them with care and is superior in every way to the mass produced stuff.

Indeed, unless doing it for yourself and friends only, you need to separate yourself from the supermarket rubbish.

[greenbeast]

how did they consume more? were you not measuring it out?
1lb/day/month of age

Because KKs do not need as much hard feed

Fair enough, i guess you just 'pay' in other ways, the lower kill out weight and longer wait to slaughter

[fsmnutter]

The kill out weight is not necessarily that much lower, we had dead weights of 61 and 69 kg from 13 month old kunes last time, who get up to 1kg hard feed daily, and often less when plenty grass and goats milk around. The bones are also lighter so percentage of meat to live weight is considerably better than other breeds.
Rosemary and Dan compared traditional to lines in terms of weight, feed, costs etc on this site which would be worth your while reading. Kune kunes are most definitely financially viable as a meat pig.

[Marches Farmer]

I think one of the problems in keeping KK's for meat,especially if new to pig-keeping, is the difficulty in getting the feeding right.  Kune Kune does mean "fat and round" in Maori so they've been selectively bred for just that.