[moony]

I have seen a property on the moors - an old, rarely used farmhouse that needs a fair bit of work on it. At present the access to it is by foot only and its the best part of a mile hike.

There are however plans approved to build a track for vehicle access from the main road to the house across moorland/allotment land belonging to a couple of people. My concern is that the track has been approved for two years and not yet been built, and without it the property is unsaleable and I would imagine would not be mortgageable. Would it be possible for the land owners to prevent the track being built, if plans had been approved by the national park?

Regarding the cost, any rough/very broad guesses ideas for a very basic track on typical wet undulating moorland ground? 

I can only assume that there must be some vehicle rights at present, just no track as its half furnished and recently double glazed.

While I appreciate it needs looking into by our solicitor if we do decide to pursue it, just wondered if anyone had any thoughts or knowledge in this area.

[harmony]

It is usual for planning to lapse after two years if the work hasn't been started. When you apply for planning you must inform landowners/tenants affected by the planning application so they must have been consulted when the access track was applied for. It might also be that an agreement was formed between the owner/developer and their neighbours to allow the track. You can go to the planning offices and look at the applications or even find it on the online planning search facility.


If there was no agreement and in writing then I would say the landowners could prevent the track going ahead even if they didn't object to the planning.


You don't have to own property or land to apply for planning but clearly without the landowners agreement you couldn't go ahead with the track.

[benkt]

When we had a brief panic about access to our place during the legal searches, I looked up the details on 'easements of necessity', I think they were called - when you need to have a right of way over a neighbours land to reach your land locked property. IIRC a recent-ish change in the law means the have to sell you a right of way for 1% of the value of your property. Don't know how this works if there isn't an existing road there and in the end for us it was unimportant as a more detailed search revealed that the track to our place had been adopted as a bone-fide road after the original deeds were written...

[stufe35]

You definitely need to do your homework here.  Rights of way across other people's land can be a nightmare and I have first hand experience of it.
Get one thing clear in your head. The planning permission for a track is completely unrelated to any rights of way.  You can have one without the other and vice versa. You need both.
Not sure how long planning is valid for I thought it was three years.  But the work only has to have been started and it's valid forever I believe.  ...I too have planning for a new track to my house (so I can get rid of the current route across my neighbours land) to avoid the planning running out I built the new entrance onto the road. Financially I cannot afford the rest, but it can wait forever now.
Next the right of way.  You need to check one exists, and if it is vehicular because that's what you need. Presumably the route is their now and could be driven in a 4x4 in dry conditions ?  You say there is more than one landowner.  Essentially if a vehicular right of way has been granted or exists you have the right to install it and maintain it, this is easier said than done.  But what is its exact route, how wide is it , are there any restrictions on its use.  Chances are a right of way exists, but from the days of horses and carts, landowners might well resist an upgrade. One of the key things is will the other owners be happy ?  Will it be /can it be fenced or wiill your nice new track be churned up by cows and tractors all winter ?
These are my immediate thoughts.
I use a forum called garden law , some very knowledge people on their regarding planning and rights of way. I suggest you post your issue there, but you will need to include more detail. 
You must do your homework before committing to this one.
When I get chance I will dig out the quotes I've had for my track and turn it into a rate per metre.

[stufe35]

I've found it...looks fantastic !

[stufe35]

Re reading my previous post it looks quite negative.  I don’t wish to put you off , the property looks very interesting, I just don’t want anyone to buy a property with shared access or where their access goes across others land without fully understanding the legal issues and some of the practical pitfalls first.  Plenty of people live with shared access quite happily. (I do not and it has been and continues to be very painful)
I have dug out my old quotes from circa 2009 and the actual construction part of my approx.  250m track was £8000  It was based on digging out 1ft of topsoil and replacing with imported stone.  At the time stone was about £10 ton and we needed about 600tons for the track which we based on 12ft wide.  So roughly £6000 in materials, £2000 men and machines. 
This does not include any drainage which you will probably need or any fencing.
This is £32 per metre so you can work out your length and get a ball park figure.

One thing to think about , my quote was based on simply spreading the top soil thinly on my adjacent field (as it is my land the track will be built on) but you will not own the adjacent land so you may have massive additional costs if you have to cart it off site. (indeed is the soil yours at all ?!)
I suspect you are in a national park and if they take an interest you might be into ecological surveys, newt fences and goodness  knows ! (Sorry just thinking out loud)

Have you established the property benefits from a vehicular right of way. ..?  This is key.

If so you could put in no or a lesser spec track and buy an old landrover,quad or tractor to make the journey from civilisation to the house. Build a parking area adjacent to the public road.

Is new vehicle route on the same route as the public footpath ?

[bazzais]

As has been said - it is possible to get planning permission without ownership of the land - however the landowners themselves should have been notified and given the right to say neh if they didnt want it.

And - yes - building a track is very expensive as stufe35 says.  Those figures are for a track thats flat(ish) I imagine.  If youve got any corners that need building up or some dodgy areas that need waterways or are going over boggy/unstable ground - your going to need a big wallet or the postman/delivery drivers wont be visiting your house

You may find that the house has agri rights of way through prolonged historic use (how long has it been unoccupied?) - but you will need a full right of way to live in it or full permission granted and written in stone.


I have two other cottages that need access across my land - that can not be objected too (not that I would)

There is one other barn thats applying for planning on other side of my land - its only access is across my drive - I will not be giving my permission for that to be made an acess route (cos I want to buy it as a barn lol)

[stufe35]

I've just re read your original post, and yes a track can only be built if an easement exists or has been recently granted.  Landowners can stop it without that.

The first question you need the answer to is does an easement exist to allow vehicular access ?

[SallyintNorth]

I would also make sure you fully investigate what is involved in making a vehicular track on top of moorland - involving someone qualified / experienced who knows what the land in question will be like in all seasons

And for sure go down to the Council offices and read the planning permission in detail - if the National Park have approved it, they should have included any restrictions about how it may be constructed, and any damage minimised.

If it's farmed land, especially if allotted / common ground, you probably won't be able to fence, and you may be required to compensate for lost grazing.  If it's a road just for you, and a someone kills a sheep on it, will you be liable?

I'd also be thinking about what other traffic you might need - delivery wagons, for instance - or expect to use the track once it's there

Stu, you've been better at googling than me.  I stopped when I got

But Mister Dent the plans have been available in the planning office for the last nine months!

[stufe35]

http://www.chriswhelan.co.uk/SaleDetails/Blake%20Mire%20For%20Sale%20Details.pdf

Not a million miles from you I think Sally

[adrian007]

Track : the cost will vary dramatically depending on:

Are you the sort of person who can learn to drive a JCB? Took my wife about 3 days to really get the hang of it.

What is the soil like - deep/soggy is bad, shallow with good rock/subsoil is good.

I have 18 inches to 2 feet of topsoild then a really solid subsoil. For my plants, it is not perfect, for building our track, it was.

Materials. You need:

Terram sheeting - 4.5m wide is about £1 a meter from memory.

Larger grade gravel - I used brick waste from the local skip company, quarry waste is alsso cheap.

You then need something a bit smaller for the surface - Road scrapings are good and cheap from the local highways agency.

Get the kind of roller you can sit on, the stand behind kind are a pain!

If the subsoil isn't supportive, i would get experts in. Then you are looking at serious expenditure.

[SallyintNorth]

Not a million miles from you I think Sally

Thanks for the link 

It looks, as you would expect, cold and damp.  Dank.  First thing would be to figure out how to get a Rayburn in and keep it running 365x24

But if they do put a track in, it'd be a very special place 

(Cumbria's a big county, Stu - it's about as far from me as Northallerton is from Huddersfield .  You're much nearer to it than I am!  )

[stufe35]

Ay your further north than I thought.  I guess the clue is in the name really !

Built some sludge settling beds just near your place about 2 years ago, just on edge of a69,  it rained lots.....and lots !

Ps I was born and bred  in Ulverston, which is also in Cumbria and about as far from you as it's possible to get Whilst still being in Cumbria.   It was Lancashire back then though.

[Herdygirl]

It looks a great place moony, and the sale particulars do say that planning consent has been granted and the 'track is about to be laid'.  I would be asking when they are going to do the work.

[stufe35]

Ah yes- in the particulars written by the 'estate agent'  - must be true