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Author Topic: Valais Blacknose  (Read 14752 times)

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2015, 09:44:33 am »
Me:  well they ve imported semen and done embryo transfers for they're easyrams, same as what you were saying  :wave:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2015, 09:45:49 am »
They are made of lamb/mutton and have, so I am told, got a good carcase and are large sheep.

So they can be eaten.

I agree that any keepers won't be making any money out of selling their meat, but that wasn't the question  :D
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2015, 09:50:17 am »
You're right Sally, I do have a soft spot for Nez Noire de Valais - I became aware of them long before Adam did his visit and just fell for a picture of a lamb at a wool event.  But I'm laughing my head off at folk importing them at such vast expense.
When I saw them in person at the Smallholders show, I was surprised that a) they are huge, and b) their fleece is not very nice, from a spinners point of view.   I also wonder how they would adapt from their native environment: largely our wet, v their relative dry.  All that heavy fleece in our endless rain could mean they struggle outdoors.

As for embryo transplant per se, I have mixed feelings.  One of my sons worked with the Dolly team, so I have an insider's view to some extent - not all positive. However, I almost became involved in embryo transfer myself when I was trying to get a 'fallback' flock established in Oz. The reason behind that was that in the aftermath of the horrors of F&M, we realised that all the Hebs were in Britain, so very vulnerable to extinction by Government policy.  Unfortunately, the importer, who lived on a small island off the Oz coast, in the end couldn't afford the costs involved, so the plan fell through.   In that situation, embryo transfer (in this case into a maternal hostess of a different local breed) was the only way to get the animals into Oz.  All to do with Scrapie Resistance genetics.  So I think it has it's place, and of course it's a scientific breakthrough tada.  In the case of the Hebs, as an extra protection for Oz from Scrapie, all the donor Heb ewes here, would have had to be slaughtered after egg collection, so their brains could be checked for signs of scrapie itself.  Well, no-one was going to give up their quality stock for that, so the Ozzie animals could have ended up as being second rate.   I've not totally forgotten the scheme and its purpose of creating a small nucleus of a British rare breed as far away from here as possible, as an insurance policy, but I'll let others actually do it.

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 10:07:37 am by Fleecewife »
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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2015, 09:54:54 am »
Well, I suppose the British keepers of this breed are establishing an off-site gene pool, in case something happens to them in their native habitat.   :thinking:

Ideally, though, it would have been better to be a dry mountainous area, such as their home, I agree.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2015, 12:05:12 pm »
Me:  well they ve imported semen and done embryo transfers for they're easyrams, same as what you were saying  :wave:

Oh right, yes I think they have. Personally, I dislike the intrusive methods including AI and would much prefer things done naturally. When you are looking at shipping genes across the world then it is the most practical and biosecure way to do it. I have a selection of females and a ram or two from this round of AI and hopefully will get the same from the other ram on ice and will not need to import for a long time. Other people are showing interest in following suit so maybe I will be able to just go and buy a nice ram by then! The only problem for me is finding another flock with similar aims and management, doing it all on farm I know a lot more about the ram I keep.

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2015, 09:28:45 pm »
I know a different species but when AI was first mentioned in the welsh pony world there was much worry, but it's a pretty common practice now, not used it my self but will do in the future, particularly with mares that I don't want to leave home.  Improves my choices,.  Also the embryo transfer is done a lot in the eventing and jumping world, a lot of mares far to valuable to push. 

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 06:36:10 pm »
As horses have been mentioned... :innocent:
My friend has produced all her good Warmbloods by AI. How else is an ordinary UK small-scale breeder going to get the best German genes into their stock?  I dont see the problem
Is it time to retire yet?

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 07:52:30 pm »
In the 18th Century the Merino was imported to improve the fleece of Down sheep breeds but couldn't cope with the wet climate.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 08:25:21 pm »
In my opinion I would say lets focus on the traditional breeds of Britain, no doubt these breeds belong where they came from. Also with the amount of sheep rustling I would never have a sane moment. I have heard that a farmer paid £55000 on a few ewes and a ram and spent £5000 on CCTV, ridiculous. Mind you the wool would be a treat for spinners. :thinking:
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Coximus

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2015, 10:29:32 pm »
Well their are some cracking rare breeds out their to try - but the blacknose has a novetly value no one can currently play against - and I can see it having its place - that and I've been told its as good a forage converter as any breed and can cope with crap pasture........
SO

Who knows? 20 years from now will all the comercial boys be using valais mules or valais sires?

The lleyn was almost extinct 25 years ago...

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2015, 11:03:10 pm »
no

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2015, 04:29:39 pm »
Somehow I don't think so, everyone prefers Lleyn, Texel, Beltex, Welsh, Mules, etc, etc. The Valais would be an absolute pain to shear, the risk of fly-strike would double, unless they're quite resistant to fly-strike and I bet they're quite a fatty breed too.
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2015, 09:22:14 pm »
SHeep breeds change with fashion but I think novelty value and the ability to produce a good Mule or butcher's lamb don't necessarily go together.  Most young lambs are rather appealing.  When you're dealing with a long, muddy fleece at shearing time maybe the appeal would fade somewhat.

steve_pr

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire Borders
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2015, 01:41:28 pm »
Interesting thread!  We only came across this breed very recently and it is very easy to get hooked!  As the owners of a Greyface Dartmoor flock here in West Wales we can get very blasé about "ultra cute" lambs - but these take the prize very easily.


Good points about the fleece and flystrike though.  Our Greyfaces also have very coarse wool like the Valais, are probably a good bit smaller, but can be a bugger to shear and getting them dry enough to shear takes a few days. Not sure the Valais would really cope with our wet weather here, I have read they can be inside for 6 months or more in their home patch. We have avoided flystrike so far this year, but it is a constant threat and digging wold be just as bad as with a grey face.  After all, they are sheep, they eat grass and it comes out the other end in various states of gooey, most of which stick to wool like glue and get steadily worse!!! As my neighbour points out, they are a rare breed for a reason!


As for the price (what are they going for anyway?) that will fall.  When we started with our Greyfaces it was quite difficult to source breeding ewes and they could be expensive although we were fortunate.  Now, just a few years later, you can barely give them away and whilst I am all for keeping bloodlines and pedigrees, we have had to resort to some crosses to get bigger lambs faster to subsidise the pedigrees.


Much as they look cute, I think I'll pass on this one (along with the alpacas, ostriches and just about everything else!)

pharnorth

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Cambridgeshire
Re: Valais Blacknose
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 07:49:02 am »
Working on a rare breed NT farm I see some breeds that have always been 'parkland', or as I like to (affectionately) call them 'pointless breeds'. Like the Bagot Goats. Some like White Park Cattle are less pointless, but nonetheless way off commercial.  But they all increase diversity in the gene pool overall.  Yes it is a form of Pyramid selling, but you just need to know where you are on the Pyramid, in that respect it is no different than increasing your flock on the guess that lamb prices will be better next year.  Personally I am not seduced by the cute pictures and prefer to stick with my Ryelands but then Alpacas never appealed to me either.

 

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