[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

I had a shearling whose water bag went in the field at 2pm.  I got her in to a lambing pen and observed every 15 minutes or so afterwards. At about 3pm she started contracting and spent probably the next hour pushing on and off.  I could see a hoof and later saw a muzzle.  Anyway, when she got more restless and was spending more time pawing and turning round than pushing I investigated further with an inexperienced but game neighbour (bear in mind that I am lambing by myself at the moment and this is only my second year!).  It was clear by now that the lamb's leg was back and we spent quite a lot of time trying to push the head back in which seemed a losing battle given that by now the shearling was pushing against us.  We decided that the lamb was getting weaker and therefore decided to deliver with the leg back as the head was now fully out.  It was fine and after a bit of rubbing the lamb picked up and seems none the worse for it.  I gave it some Kickstart, Betamoxed Mum and have seen it feed within half an hour or so.  The problem is that whilst successful, the whole experience has really knocked my confidence. I think it is just seeing how it can go wrong and feeling utterly helpless when we couldn't find the other leg, let alone get it forward!  What I want to know is what other people would have done differently.  In what circumstances can you get the head back in?  I think we were so scared of hurting her and it felt counter-intuitive to be pushing the lamb back in.  Should I have intervened earlier?  It just feels all too much of a narrow escape for comfort at the moment and I am panicking about my last shearling to lamb who is also expecting a single.  Your thoughts would be much appreciated. 
Helen

[Foobar]

I would have delivered the lamb with the leg back, and not bothered trying to push the head back. If there were no legs forward then I would have pushed the head back, but may need to lift the ewe's back end so that you have gravity on your side.  I always refer to my lambing techniques book (Agnes Winter) whenever I have anything complicated.

[SallyintNorth]

I wouldn't normally push the head back in unless I have only the head. 

If I've got one front leg and the head I will have a feel to see if I can easily and safely get the other front leg, and if I can't, I'll usually deliver it with one front leg, as you did.

I would trace back up to the shoulder to make absolutely certain it's the leg of the same lamb, then feel my way across the shoulders and find the other front leg.  By then I should have an impression of the width of the lamb's shoulders and of her birth canal, and know whether I really need the other leg forward - sometimes if it's a highly-muscled type of lamb and the mother's birth canal is a bit narrow, the backward-facing shoulder can be too much for her.   But generally, unless you are breeding extreme fat lambs, she should cope.

If I didn't feel confident to pull the lamb forward with only one leg, and I can't safely get the other, then I would get the vet.  They can give her something to stop her pushing, which makes getting the other leg very much easier

Don't beat yourself up - you have a live lamb that's suckled

Another time, if you can see the muzzle or tongue, you should be able to see two feet.  If you can't see two feet alongside the muzzle, then yes, get in there.  Give her maybe 10 or 20 minutes if you like, in case it's coming slightly lopsided, but if you still only see one foot, get in and have a look.

It's right to want to leave our girls to do the job naturally, and I know a lot of us old hands do go on about some people intervening too soon.  But... so long as you use plenty of lube, give her antibiotics if you've been inside, make sure your fingernails are short and smooth, your hands clean, and you don't do anything rough in there, you won't harm the ewe by having a look.    And if everything is coming right, then you can leave her to get on with it at her own pace

Don't ever hesitate to call the vet in if you aren't sure how to proceed.  BH still gets the vet for some difficult ones, and he's been lambing 200-400 ewes a year for 45 years   It's one of the things I admire about him - he'd never risk the ewe or the lambs by struggling on himself if he can't work it out or get them to come right. 

[Gunnermark]

I had the same last year, just made sure the leg was attached to the lamb in question. You just have to go with your gut at times. I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the head back in unless vital. Always a learning curve.

[Victorian Farmer]

You did well remeber go for it don't think just do it .Iv been the same I had 2 ewes and both I could not sort 5.30 the old man in bed I just had to do it .You will lern fast .Lambing 250 from this Friday in england then my 260 3 weeks latter .All the best

[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

Thank you everyone.  This is just a very steep learning curve and I am feeling a bit fragile!  Had no idea how responsible I would feel.  Going to try and have an early night. 
Helen

[princesslayer]

This was my first year, I consider myself to have a very cool head in a crisis and deal well with stress.  But I was a wreck!!  I was back and forth like a yoyo checking them, re-checking them, and when I was doing something else I couldn't think about anything but sheep!  It was very intense and I felt completely responsible for the life of every ewe and lamb - and there were only four ewes!!  They all lambed perfectly well on their own, of course, in spite of my standing around them too much.

Don't beat yourself up at all - your conscientious and it matters that every ewe has a good outcome.  It'll be that bit easier next year, you've learned loads! I certainly have. 

[debbigord]

Bless you. There seem to be so many different permutations and complications that when they just pop them out effortlessly most of the time I'm always a bit surprised! How nice to know that ever people with 45 years experience still need help.
I think that our commitment to do the best for our animals is our guide and that if you have done that then you should feel ok, whatever the outcome. Your animals are lucky to have someone so committed to do the best they can and to keep learning.
I'm sure an early night and a happy outcome will have you feeling better again tomorrow- sounds like you're doing a fab job to me! X

[Backinwellies]

Most lambs can be lambed quite easily in the 'superman' take off position..... So as long as you have one leg and a head no need to push back.  Lambing is a very stressful time ..... I'm busy kicking myself for not feeding some more in late pregnancy ... Scared of getting very large lambs... But have had a couple of very small ones.

[Ladygrey]

I hope you feel better about yourself soon 

Its a steep learning curve and by next year im sure you will be much more confident and knowledgeable 

I would generally pull the lamb if it only had one leg back as they can be born safely in this position, I had a 5.5 kilo lamb born to a 35 kilo ewe 3 days ago, it had one leg stuck back and was wedged at the shoulders, it took a very long time to get out and obviously I had put the ewe to the wrong tup for her, she always has twins and lambs on her own but this is the first year she has had a single and it was far too big for her

I have also had two ring wombs, one heavy prolapse, 3 stuck over sized charollais lambs and a rotten dead set of trips, yesterday I had a 50 kg ewe lamb a 6.5 kilo lamb, she also had ring womb, now that was fun......
The funny thing is every single assist has been from a crossbred ewe (half terminal sire ewe or other cross apart from a mule) and I have only had to touch one mule (prolapse) I guess I may be getting more mules over the summer and heaving a heavy cull on crossbred sheep

At the end of the day I look out into the field and see all the chunky live lambs skipping around and I reckon lambing has (so far) gone really well this year, just remember the good bits and occasionally remind yourself gently about the bad bits and you will go far 

[Caleb]

 :)Well done, live lambs is all that matters. Try and find a lambing course, the agricultural colleges do them and sometimes sponsored by the Wool Marketing Board. You get to manipulate dead lambs in a phantom uterus so no pressure, also learnt to tube on a dead lamb so have saved loads over the years. Still struggle with mixed up multiples and head only though!

[Foobar]

yesterday I had a 50 kg ewe lamb a 6.5 kilo lamb

Ouch! I'm happy when my 50kg ewes pop out a 3.5kg (twin) or 4kg (single) on their own.

[Ladygrey]

yesterday I had a 50 kg ewe lamb a 6.5 kilo lamb

Ouch! I'm happy when my 50kg ewes pop out a 3.5kg (twin) or 4kg (single) on their own ... which leads me onto another thread ...

Same, I do not like or want lambs over 5kgs and I hope to keep my average around 3.5-4 kgs,

So far my lambs birth weight vary from 2.3-5.7 with 3.7 being the average from the charmoise tup and 3.4-6.5 with 4.7 being the average from the charollais tup, wich is a little too large from the charollais tup

[Anke]

The funny thing is every single assist has been from a crossbred ewe and I have only had to touch one mule (prolapse) I guess I may be getting more mules over the summer and heaving a heavy cull on crossbred sheep

Aren't mules cross-breds too?

[Ladygrey]

The funny thing is every single assist has been from a crossbred ewe and I have only had to touch one mule (prolapse) I guess I may be getting more mules over the summer and heaving a heavy cull on crossbred sheep

Aren't mules cross-breds too?

Sorry I wasnt clear  of course they are

I meant cross bred as in half terminal sire ewes (half charollais/texel/etc) will correct my original post