[Womble]

Just wondering, for those of you who use licky buckets for your sheep, which ones do you use and at what time of year?

We had the red crystalix high energy buckets out earlier in the year, then changed to the standard black mineral ones a couple of months ago to stop the ewes from getting too fat.

My question is, should I change from the black bucket back to the red one now (6 weeks off lambing), and if I do, how much should I reduce the concentrates by? 

It's mainly the Zwartbles I'm on the lookout for. They're currently at condition score 3 and I'm feeding them 200g of nuts each per day plus ad lib hay, and was planning to step that up to 600g/day by lambing. (NB, for folks who've read my other posts, that's for the Z's only. The Manxs are overfat already - too many bribes paid to try and tame them up, so they're not getting any nuts just now, just the black bucket.)

I just wondered how the rest of you judge this, and what rules of thumb you use?

[trish.farm]

I use mole valleys own lick buckets from sept onwards.  Super energy.  6 weeks prior to lambing I also give them rumenco prelamber licks. They have been on adlib hay since the start of Jan.  Ewe nuts started at same time.  No idea what weight of hard feed.  14 ewes, 1 scoop nuts morning and evening!!  I can tell if they are really hungry as they pile through the lick buckets too quickly!  All are perfect lambing condition (in my eyes)!  A little lean and massive tummys full of lambs. Hard feed is bumped up once lambed until spring grass comes through.  They have just started lambing this week.

[Daisys Mum]

Read this with interest as I have Zwartbles too, I was feeding ad-lib hay until my sheep farmer neighbour told be that I may cause prolapse so I have stopped and just put a bit out at night, now I'm a bit worried that they not be getting enough. They are about 8-9 weeks away from lambing, 4 are expecting twins and 1 triplets, they have a red chrystalix bucket and are getting 1 lb of hard feed every morning.

[Penninehillbilly]

Read this with interest as I have Zwartbles too, I was feeding ad-lib hay until my sheep farmer neighbour told be that I may cause prolapse so I have stopped and just put a bit out at night, now I'm a bit worried that they not be getting enough. They are about 8-9 weeks away from lambing, 4 are expecting twins and 1 triplets, they have a red chrystalix bucket and are getting 1 lb of hard feed every morning.

I had a Zwarble tup on loan and he was hard to keep weight on. After reading up about them I think they need more than 'our' breeds. Does your neighbour have zwarbles? or has he looked at yours and saying they are too fat?
My girls seem a bit fat to me.
They get about 4oz feed (he was getting about a lb), and a pile of hay just before dark, they aren't due to lamb until May. They don't have a lick yet.
Not having wintered sheep out before I'm hoping that's OK
 Surely feeding hay wouldn't cause problems?

[Thyme]

I have some similar questions although I'm wondering more about concentrates.  My Shetlands currently have adlib hay, some grazing (the grass doesn't look enough to graze to me, but sometimes they graze even when they have hay, so it must be), a mineral block, and a red licky bucket, which they are using, but not obsessively (20 sheep, 1 bucket, about 1/3 gone since December).  It's just coming up to six weeks before lambing and I'm going back and forth in my mind about starting concentrates or just continuing with the hay and maybe starting concentrates after lambing. 

My mentor, who is terrific, would definitely give them concentrates, but he learned on commercial sheep and is also the sort of person who always wants to give animals more treats, he's a lovely big softy and his sheep are all fat  

Mine are currently condition score around 2.5, some 3, except for one skinny ewe who I'm hesitant to supplement at this stage because she was similarly skinny last year (when I bought her as part of a group) and then had a very large lamb, so I'm concerned she'd just give it all to her babies and then struggle at lambing.  She seems healthy and happy otherwise, no scour, good appetite, bright eyes.

I didn't scan so don't know who is carrying and who is carrying twins, although I have some guesses from belly size at this stage!

I'm leaning toward not giving concentrates before lambing and then see after that, but it would be very helpful to get any advice people can offer.  Ideally I'd like small lambs that get born easily to ewes that have plenty of milk and nice fleeces, since I'm breeding more for wool with meat as a happy side effect, so am not fussed about market weights.

[honeyend]

Lots of answers for ewes but mine are last years 3 castrated lambs, bought to do some tidying.
 They are bright and alert but there is little grass left so they are have a slice of hay a day, if I do it well spread out, two if its wet and cold. Have not managed to train my help and my husband that if they put all in one place it just gets trampled and they waste it.
  I think they are about 2.5-3 but I am no expert so I have just ordered a licky from countrywide and they are getting a small amount of sugarbeet soaked when I feed them. This has turned them into right bleaters, as soon as they see me they will not shut up and carry on after they have eaten up to try and beg for more.
 So when I get the high energy lick I will give no sugar beet, but how fat would you want them I intend to send them away in the next month or so depending how hard I can be.

[Thyme]

Read this with interest as I have Zwartbles too, I was feeding ad-lib hay until my sheep farmer neighbour told be that I may cause prolapse so I have stopped and just put a bit out at night, now I'm a bit worried that they not be getting enough. They are about 8-9 weeks away from lambing, 4 are expecting twins and 1 triplets, they have a red chrystalix bucket and are getting 1 lb of hard feed every morning.

I had a Zwarble tup on loan and he was hard to keep weight on. After reading up about them I think they need more than 'our' breeds. Does your neighbour have zwarbles? or has he looked at yours and saying they are too fat?
My girls seem a bit fat to me.
They get about 4oz feed (he was getting about a lb), and a pile of hay just before dark, they aren't due to lamb until May. They don't have a lick yet.
Not having wintered sheep out before I'm hoping that's OK
 Surely feeding hay wouldn't cause problems?

I read claims on a farming forum that prolapses are more likely on hay because the heavily pregnant ewe doesn't have enough room inside for all the bulky hay she has to eat to get the nutrients she needs, compared to concentrates which give nutrition with less bulk.  Not sure I completely believe it, would be curious what our resident vets say...

[Backinwellies]

Firstly why are you feeding concentrates so early?  Not needed until last 6 weeks unless ewes very thin. Then yes concentrates are needed close to lambing especially if twins likey as belly can't take in enough hay to feed ewe and lambs. Good condition ewes with singles probably don't need conc.

[ewesaidit]

I have Zwartbles and they have access to a high energy bucket  in winter before the 6 weeks lead up to lambing when they are fed concentrates at 18% protein building up to about a kilo per head each per day split over two feeds.  These are large ewes (some very large!) scanned carrying either twins or triplets).

There was enough grass at the backend of last year such that they didn't get hay until December (lambing 3rd week in January.

Never had a problem with feeding hay ad lib.   

There is variation in type within the Zwartbles breed and there are some that are leaner in build and more difficult to get weight on but on the whole would argue this isn't the norm.  Mine are well fleshed and do well on the regime described. 

Not that I'm defensive about the breed lol!

[Jamie12]

I'm having similar concerns, my 30 girls have access to a red high energy bucket. We still have grass, have 18 scanned singles, six twins, 5 empty and one surprise, have just started giving them less than half a bucket of ewe nuts, though concerned they may be too fat. I'm planning to divide them up soon, if my landlord agrees.

[shep53]

YOU seem to be doing ok you realise that the manx are fat and that the zw are perfect but need more feed   , either  bucket will be ok  all should tell you approx. daily consumption  so you can reduce the conc level .          I keep saying its never straight forward feeding in pregnancy , I start apr 1st   and have no grass    -   ewes cs 3+ singles or twins ad lib silage only until 4wks before then maybe twins start concs  ,  singles maybe 2wks .       Ewes cs 2.5- silage and 300 gm concs from 10wks before  singles or twins  ,      fit trips  concs from 6wks  ,      all  lean singles / all twins / all trips       lifeline buckets from 4wks before partially to help with a selenium and iodine deficiency  .       

[SallyintNorth]

Jamie, with yours being hoggs, I would think you must feed the twin-bearers or you'll end up with pet lambs and hoggs with mastitis. 

[Ladygrey]

I recently lost a large amount of grazing, so have had to sell some sheep and bring everything home to be stocked over umm 2 acres with no grazing

I am for the first time having to feed stuff!!!

They are on haylage, lifeline buckets and 300 grams on cake each per day, they are all in very fine fettle and have improved loads since coming home off the keep, the keep was pretty c*** anyway

The mules carrying charollais lambs are consistently thinner than the mules carrying charmoise lambs (which I find very interesting), the ewe lambs are all in lamb to the charmoise

The ewe lambs will all have 1 lamb taken off so that they all end up with singles as then its just much less of a bother and they are mules after all 

Currently attempting to put up our lambing poly tunnel (bit of a drag) to get them off the very overstocked field, lambing starts in just under 3 weeks now!

The lambs I had born in Jan are chunking up, very very impressed with the one lamb, she is a stunner!

[Womble]

Wow, lots of replies - I'm clearly not the only one thinking about this!

Thanks for the vote of confidence too Shep  .

Jamie, with yours being hoggs, I would think you must feed the twin-bearers or you'll end up with pet lambs and hoggs with mastitis. 

Why do you say that though Sally?  Do you mean that they won't have enough milk to feed their twins if they are not fed now?

I'll be honest, I started using the buckets because our legendary tight frugal neighbour also does. I figure that if he's shelling out £20 a pop for the buckets while his gates are all held up with bailer twine, there must be something in our local conditions that means I should be doing it too! 

[SallyintNorth]

Jamie, with yours being hoggs, I would think you must feed the twin-bearers or you'll end up with pet lambs and hoggs with mastitis. 

Why do you say that though Sally?  Do you mean that they won't have enough milk to feed their twins if they are not fed now?

Yes, that's what I mean.  Unless I'm mistaken, Jamie12 has hoggs, and hoggs, being only a year old themselves when they lamb, need extra special care.  Twin-bearers will need additional feeding for sure hereabouts; Jamie's land may be considerably better than ours, but as she's not that far away from me I would have thought she'd need to give at least a little cake to any twin-bearing hoggs.

It's quite normal to take one lamb off a hogg who births twins, but IME she'll still have needed fed in order to feed herself (she's only a baby herself, and needs to keep on growing too), her unborn lambs, and lay in enough milk for even one lamb.

Shortage of milk can be ameliorated by topping up the lamb, of course, but shortage of milk can lead to mastitis as hungry lamb(s) pester on at empty teats.  This can - and does - happen even in experienced ewes, but is even more likely in first-timers, who don't have the experience to know how to ration their lambs, and how to keep the lamb from pestering while still getting enough feed herself.