Author Topic: What not to put Ryeland ewes to (Read 11920 times)

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2015, 01:23:37 am »

We know of a number of Beltex breeders who use a Shetland tup on their hoggs to give them an easy first lambing, and lambs that know what to do and will get up and get onto the teat without needing any help, whether or not the inexperienced young mother approves of the idea!

So it seems strange reading about using Beltex for an easy first lambing...

Deere · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2015, 07:27:19 am »

My father in law has texel and texel cross Beltex and he has the same breed in tups all thought they keep a Charolais tup for using on all the first timers.

Must say its great to see lots of different opinions/ideas on the best/worst way forward, I guess it's what works for the individual and also the fact everyone has a different idea as to what easy really is!

Only another six weeks until we start lambing at work and three months until I lamb at home!

Womble · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:00:07 am »

Quote from: Deere on January 13, 2015, 07:27:19 am

everyone has a different idea as to what easy really is!

You may have hit the nail on the head there Deere! That, combined with the farmer "talking his books" as it were?

Me · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2015, 03:10:30 pm »

I think you are confusing lambing the narrow pelvised beltex with using a ram bred the same way as a terminal sire Sally, pure Beltex ewes lamb badly (i have done many c -secs on them) but used as a ram Beltex = easy lambings as do Charollais

BUT if easy lambing is your top priority in choosing a terminal sire - use a Charmoise, there is no better choice for this IMO (see small head, wedge shape, light, light bone on avatar <left!)

Marches Farmer · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2015, 06:16:50 pm »

Quote from: Me on January 12, 2015, 11:18:19 pm

Wow, I've never heard anyone talking Suffolk for increased survival! Are we talking NZ Suffolk or traditional?

These are traditional Suffolks, not the show type with their heavy legs and heads.

Me · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2015, 06:35:19 pm »

I would be interested to know how they are being farmed, what ewes they are on where they got their Suffolks from and what the fag packet survival stats vs the same place with the other breeds they tried if you have any of that information

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2015, 10:03:20 am »

Quote from: Me on January 13, 2015, 03:10:30 pm

I think you are confusing lambing the narrow pelvised beltex with using a ram bred the same way as a terminal sire Sally, pure Beltex ewes lamb badly (i have done many c -secs on them) but used as a ram Beltex = easy lambings as do Charollais

Ah. Similar to Blue cattle then. Some of the cows, especially of the Belgian Blues, have a narrowed birth canal, but these days the British Blue bulls seem to be easy calving.

Me · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2015, 10:07:01 am »

I should say: my post makes it sound as if Charollais struggle to lamb pure too - they don't seem to

Me · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2015, 10:08:19 am »

Yeah like the BB, I think all c sec animals should have an ear mark applied by the vet and not allowed to be registered or sold through society auctions

Ladygrey · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2015, 12:49:00 pm »

Quote from: Me on January 14, 2015, 10:08:19 am

Yeah like the BB, I think all c sec animals should have an ear mark applied by the vet and not allowed to be registered or sold through society auctions

Thats a really good idea

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2015, 01:43:07 am »

Quote from: Ladygrey on January 14, 2015, 12:49:00 pm

Quote from: Me on January 14, 2015, 10:08:19 am
Yeah like the BB, I think all c sec animals should have an ear mark applied by the vet and not allowed to be registered or sold through society auctions

Thats a really good idea

As far as I am aware, a proportion of pedigree Belgian Blues are born by elective caesarean, having been gestated in surrogate cows, often Jerseys. This so that a given top cow can produce more calves than her own breeding cycle would allow. Originally they used Jerseys because the Jersey has a very wide pelvis, so could more readily birth the calves than the mother's own breed. Then they found they were getting difficult calvings even with the wide pelvis of the Jersey, so now they just do caesars as a matter of routine.

It's the main reason none of my Jersey females will ever be sold through a livestock auction.

Sorry, OP, we've strayed away from your follow-up tup for your Ryelands!

Me · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2015, 08:16:09 am »

Yes the more potentially valuable the calf or lamb the more likely a section will be demanded by the farmer, and insanely the Belgian Blue is (or was last I heard) often brought into the world by planned section. Great! Not convinced by the flushing and embryo transfer idea either, its a way around your sheep not being able to give birth or provide milk very often

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2015, 10:48:25 am »

Quote from: Me on January 15, 2015, 08:16:09 am

Not convinced by the flushing and embryo transfer idea either, its a way around your sheep not being able to give birth or provide milk very often

I've got to say, it's one of the things that bothers me about routinely using AI, embryo transfer and caesarians, singly or in combination - that the very breed one is trying to preserve or improve may end up losing its natural fertility, and that not be realised, possibly until it's too late.

Me · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2015, 11:07:04 am »

Its an understandable thing where breeds are near extinct, but undesirable practice IMO. I have recently imported Charmoise semen to the UK and AI'd my ewes as there is a need for new blood here, top ebv sheep from the French testing centres etc etc. Its not something I would do routinely. I have one more AI season next year (different tup) and will be quite happy to go back to using the ram