[marigold]

I stood last weekend in a queue at Heathrow behind a family from Somalia who looked like they had seen things I can only imagine. They were all stick thin with cheek bones that looked like they were going to break through. They had their best printed cotton on and looked like they were making a huge effort in difficult circumstances. They were being helped my some sort of international migration agent but the woman behind the desk was appallingly rude. I was ashamed to be white. I wanted to tell them that I hoped that they would find the better life they wanted here. But I said nothing and politely waited in Queue. I have worked a bit with asylum seekers in Glasgow who like a previous post said are not given benefits and not allowed to work. Brilliant professionals are treated worse than battery hens.
I understand your perspective James and think that we have to keep thinking and talking about all this stuff - I am not sure that the benefit system is the whole problem. I think that mismanagement of the worlds resources are the problem and if I was trying to live in a some of the world's less resourced places I would be more likely to hate the rich white west than want to work there. The way that people get access to the wonders that this world has to offer is not fair.
I blame Tesco myself! - just kidding.
Rattle rattle rattle rattle Rattle rattle rattle rattle!!!!!!

[doganjo]

One can have the same principles and ideals as a Christian without believing in Christ.  I am also proud that we do not have to watch our backs every second,  don't get dragged down to a Police Station for driving into a yellow hatched box - or anything else mildly illegal.  I am glad that our police force protect me.  I don't care what colour, creed, height, width, size of shoe, colour of hair or anything else anyone is or has, and so long as they do not take advantage of our system they are welcome to stay in my country.  Truth to tell, my ancestors were immigrants from Skye where they were horse thieves

[RUSTYME]

there you go .. the truth is out .. lock up your horses folks ...ANNIES about...

 "Speed Annies boat like a bird on the wing , onward the sailors cry"....

cheers

Russ

[doganjo]

Wish you could come to Glasgow on the 7th Rusty - we'd all LOVE to meet you!

[sellickbhoy]

Truth to tell, my ancestors were immigrants from Skye where they were horse thieves

it's not that big a place - how did they get away with it?

once they had stolen some horses - who did they sell them too? there must have only been 2 buyers for horses on the island!!

i take it they did one big heist and fled the island to sell the horses on the mainland?

[doganjo]

I wasn't there but the stories passed down through the generations were that they came across in boats to the mainland, rode down to the Borders, raided across the Border then herded the horses back up North, sold them on the way back to the shore and home on the boats again with whatever proceeds they had left after no doubt numerous visits to dens of iniquity en route.  RESPECT! 

[sandy]

That same skills shortage just after the war brought all those Afro Carabeans over with promises of a wonderful life as Bus COnductors!! They left the sun, sea and chilled out life to come to the UK,  all dressed up in thieir very best just to be treated like dirt!! Fotunatley, a lot saw this as a challenge and worked hard, saved, got an education and moved on ...I love a multicultural life, all that culture mixed up  much better than a bland society.
P.S I understand what James means, we are a Christian country.....Church of England...and of course we are not all Christians, many  are NOT.....the laws are Christian based rather than Islamic based or any other religion. I am very interested in other religions but when symbles of Christianity are banned then I even get mad...no Nativity...No Christmas parties....No Bells ringing on SUnday (an area where I worked could not ring the church bells on SUnday due to complaints from other religions) I also know, many people from Non Christian religions, love and in fact "DO" Chritmas and why not???

[RUSTYME]

at the moment it looks like if I were there on the 7th , I would end up like William Wallace . What with me wanting to wipe out all humankind !!! lol... Well ok , slight exaggeration there ...but anyway ..I really don't travel too well Annie . More than half an hour in a car these days and it takes forever for me to get back to normal . Also , my 4 dogs wouldn't take kindly to being left with anyone. The Weimarana will not be apart from me for more than an hour or so , she goes mental , totally out of control ...silly ole thing that she is.... But, never say never.... one day maybe ... you never know...

cheers

Russ

[sandy]

We all have the same basic needs just some of us are greedy...some hard working...some lazy...some could not care less and of course some just unable...I can be all at times

[Hilarysmum]

Ok so we own our own house and are not a burden on the state, but we are imigrants here in Brittany - welcomed by many and loathed by a few - and the stories some come out with about how all us rich rosbifs come over here to buy cheap houses, live like kings and live off the state. (A conondrom I admit).  I hear exactly the same stories about Brits as you hear about other immigrants.  Sadly there are one or two who claim for everything, work on the black, give the rest of us a bad name.  It is odd being on the receiving end, especially when I pay my crippling social charges. 

[MiriMaran]

If I was struggling to feed my children and there was a promise of a better life in another country I wouldn't hesitate to pack my bags and give it a go.  On arrival I would do my damndest to do the best I could.  I think that is where the problem is - how hard people try when they arrive i.e. finding a job, integrating into mainstream society, learning the language e.t.c.  Then again there are some British families in this country that have relied on our welfare system for 3 generations!!!  Some people grow never seeing anyone around them working and have no concept of the work ethic.

I think you have a point James, but whilst some immigrants are neer-do-wells others are genuine hard working honest people, just the same as we already have in our country.

[marigold]

has anyone read the intro to Nigella's Christmas book?    (it is the same subject - honest)
Anyway she talks very well about how the Christian feast of Christmas is overlaid onto the old pagan traditions of celebrating the cycle of life and the return of the sun etc. Seemingly it was Pope Julius I who thought that the best way to convert the population of Europe from paganism to christianity was to nick their favourite feast, so they could all become Christian without losing the best bits of paganism. The point is that for quite a while now people have migrated for a number of reasons. We generally think that the Romans did us a good turn but invading - I bet Boudicca didn't think so - anyway who stamped the Romans passports? or the vikings? or the saxons? not to mention William the conqueror and Mary Queen of Scots spoke French ..............
As far as I remember the Romans had a bit of a reputation for lying about, eating other people's food and generally being unpleasant. They were quite good at road design but hey, that led to cars which is bad.

I've got an idea why don't all of us TAS people take over Tuscany??? The weathers better, you can grow tomatoes outside and nobody could blame us for ditching Berlusconi   actually we'd be doing the Italians a favour. They'd thank us in the end......

[Snoopy]

P.S...a lot of us are immigrants or at least decendants of imigrants!!! People want a better, safe life and like animals, flee to safe places!!!! I came to Scotland!!! many of my ancestors left!!!!!

Exactly - my ancestors left Ireland for England in hard times, and I left England for Ireland in good times and brought a lot of money
back into the country, worked hard, taught teachers and kids in Irish schools, ran courses with FAS for the unemployed and also taught small businesses how to run their comanies on a computer and marketing skill - its what you bring, and what sort of life you want to live.

[sausagesandcash]

The problem my friends, in my humble opinion, is that it is hard to separate the chaff from the wheat. Come one, come all I say, but if you're found not to be a genuine refugee, off home with you (one appeal, within 6 months), then away home with you. If you're a non national who commits a felony, away home with you. There are, after all, a small minority of foreign nationals from some countries who are exporting an arm of their mafia over here. Most foreign nationals I know miss home, are genuinely decent hard working people, but anyone found guilty of a felony should have their bags packed and be dispatched off home. Now for this to be successful you would need all manner of fingerprint, D.N.A and photographic data on the individual, to make sure that they never returned, and if they were found in the country again, to be repatriated immediately. The civil liberties people would have a hernia!

[Snoopy]

I wasn't there but the stories passed down through the generations were that they came across in boats to the mainland, rode down to the Borders, raided across the Border then herded the horses back up North, sold them on the way back to the shore and home on the boats again with whatever proceeds they had left after no doubt numerous visits to dens of iniquity en route.  RESPECT! 

Annie - that is called Human Natures persistance to Survive - imagine living on Skye - eventually you would need things, and thieving horses to keep your faminly alive is far more acceptable than a lot of corruption and theft going on in the world these days just to feed themselves drugs!

AND remember, the people who they stole the horses from, probably stole them from someone else, it is a roundabout of the survival of the fittest, or was then, nowadays it how big an expenses claim they can get away with and how much profit they can make from the average Joe to feed themselves with bonuses.

When you go  shopping, and you see 50% off and 75% 0ff - do you not realise that they are thieving from you when they charge you the full price - profit should be capped - then the world would not be in the mess it is in now!

Theft is never going to go away, identity theft, profit is theft when they can reduce an item by 75% - and they advertise it as if they are doing you a favour and are nice people - the truth is hard for a lot of people to see - but there is no one who can say the havent thieved something, even if it was a paperclip, someone elses words, a marketing statement from someone, a chip out of a friends supper - it happens all the time

This studying social science gets you thinking