[Mungo24]

Morning

Having decided that getting a sheepdog, I had a chat with the local shepherd for some advice. I am after an older dog that knows what it is doing, I am experienced with dogs but have never trained a sheepdog and one of us needs to know what is going on. After listening carefully he tells me he has just the dog for me, it won't go round his hundreds but will happy round up a smaller flock.

I am going to have a look at her today, I am confident I can assess a dogs temperament as a pet but less with it's herding abilities or potential problems.

Anything in particular I should look out for as a definite 'walk away now' characteristic, I will get him to put her round some sheep to see how she goes.

Thanks for your help

[Dogwalker]

Can't help with sheepdog advise but could you take it on a trial period for a month say and see how you get on.
From what I know of dogs you can get on with some and others you'll never 'click' with however good they may be but they'll suit someone else fine.

[georgielmgm]

I reckon it's different with every dog having seen a few in action, but a really good dog should follow instructions from anyone as long as you are using the same terms. And tone of voice is really important, I worked with two dogs once, they were trained and lived with the farmers mother (so more inclined to work for women to begin with) but he would shout and lose his temper, they worked for my mum and I perfectly. Calm tones, don't rush/shout, let them see the sheep and figure out what they are doing.
The dog should also be relatively calm, dogs that nip at the sheep, bark excessively, and rush into the flock and break it up stress the sheep and you. You should also be able to see the dog reacting to the instructions, they have a good natural instinct normally, but I've seen a few that don't listen, concentrate on one bit of the flock, and then miss the 20 or so that have turned and run the wrong way!
So all I can really suggest (no expert) is listening to the terms he uses, and tone of voice, and try it yourself and see how you get on when she/he is working on a few of his sheep. 
Good luck, I'd love a sheepdog 

[Porterlauren]

Simple starter is . . . . . will it work for you?

Had dogs that would work for me but would look at anyone else like they were an idiot.

If it's a decent price and half decent you can work with it. If you want a fully trained dog doing the works, you are looking at £2000-£3000. Part trained, i.e gather but not drive, but knows its sides etc etc £800-£1200.

SO if he is a neighbour and its a good price. . . . . i'd be tempted to work with it.

[Me]

Me too. If it even does most of what you say it will become your best mate. My old bitch Gwen was given to me and though she has a few wrinkles you learn to work together and she is fantastic - couldn't be without her

[Bramblecot]

I'm no expert but in my experience working dogs are very different to pets.  The dogs I worked were often re-handled to work with different people.  You can work with a dog you don't particularly like especially if it is good at it's job.  Similarly it may not like you but enjoys doing the work.  So long as you can rub along together and have mutual respect, that's fine, and the job gets done.
However, if you both 'click' you can develop a great partnership -which is priceless- and makes for a lot of enjoyable time together .
I would have a look at her in her own environment, then see if she can come to you for a trial period.  It may be that she is too soft for his large flock and can't cope with the intensity (I had a bitch like that) but will be happy under less pressure, working a few sheep and being a good companion.  Just watch out for undue nervousness and snappiness esp. if she will be near children.
I hope it works out for you

[SallyintNorth]

a really good dog should follow instructions from anyone as long as you are using the same terms.

A good farm dog may be *required* to work for other handlers, in which case, in *that* context, a good dog would work for other people.  But to have a dog win trials with you, it needs to have bonded with you, and that's a different thing altogether.

Some, if not many, of the very best dogs will only work for their one handler.  Alan Bradley, who trains and deals in sheepdogs, and who has won the International at least once, told me of a dog he bought that took a year to bond with him and work for him.  He wouldn't have kept it that long unless it was a really good dog - and sure enough it did go on and become an excellent trials dog with him.

He does train the dogs he sells to work for different people (he trains them using all kinds of different voices!  so funny  ) , and the dog I bought from him will work for other people - he even worked for a loopy actor in a Brazilian film...    My own dog (by which I mean, the one I trained myself) will only work for me, and I like it that way.  BH's dog arrived fully trained and he couldn't get her to do anything, because he doesn't use the 'right' words / sounds.  I could get her to work for me, because I did use the 'right' words, so we knew she had it in her.  So he kept her and worked with her to learn his way of working.  Now of course she works only to *his* funny noises, and won't do a thing *I* ask her 

[SallyintNorth]

To answer Mungo's question...

You may find this dog *won't* work for you right away, so the trial period is a good idea.  She probably won't work for you while he is there - I have to go away from the scene if I want Skip to work for someone else - so you may have to take her home and work with her on your own.

When watching her work for her current owner, I would echo the comments about her working quietly and calmly and not aggravating the sheep.  I'd want to see her stop / lie down on command, while with the sheep, and leave them and come back to the farmer when asked.  I'd also want to see her in the pens with them - some dogs are fine in the field but either can't hack the pens or are too full-on in the pens and wind the sheep up.

Edited to add... Oh, and get him to show you her putting the sheep through a gate, too.  Skip has one big fault, and it's that he puts them through a gate, then follows them, turns them, and brings them straight back!  It's taken a *lot* of work to get him to not do that!   

If you haven't worked a sheepdog before, you may like to have some training with her.  I don't know where you are, but there'll be someone in your area that someone on here can recommend.  In north Cumbria we're incredibly lucky to have Derek Scrimgeour, but there are other good people all over the country - Dave Kennard in Devon, for one.  I've had a few odd days and half-days with Derek, and they are incredibly good value for money.

[Mungo24]

Quick update

Popped round to see her, lovely nature, friendly and responsive. Saw her papers and isds registration, and purchase receipt from trainer.

Current owner not keen on a trial but we have arranged for him to show me her doing her stuff, thanks to all for the pointers I will keep them in mind when I see the demo.

[animalcrackers]

 I have had my collie for 4 years now and got her when she was five. I spent a few weeks bonding with her - and did not work her at this time (on the advice of her previous owner). Once i learnt what i should be doing and got the right commands we gained confidence with one another.She and i have a fantastic bond and i cant imagine my day without her

[midtown]

For those oop north, another I would recommend, http://www.katycropper.co.uk/index.php?page=sheepdog-training.