[Fleecewife]

I've put this here to attract the attention of those who don't look in the bees section.

The Cabinet will meet on Tuesday July 1st to take the decision as to whether to allow Syngenta an exemption to the EU ban on Neonicotinoids, a major pesticide group known to be destroying large numbers of our honey and native bee populations.  In other words, this huge company wants to be allowed to destroy our bee populations 

Bees are such an all-important part of our ecosystem, pollinating our crops, both cultivated and wild.
Syngenta obviously want an exemption so they can continue to make mega-bucks with their destructive product, not caring the slightest bit about what will happen once the bees are gone. Is this what we want? It's definitely not what I want.

The main message is posted by Shygirl in 'bees and beekeeping'.

Here is a quick link direct to the petition:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/a-ban-is-a-ban


Please please sign.

 

[Backinwellies]

Thank you ... had missed this .... signed!

[Lesley Silvester]

I'd already signed. How do the govt think crops are pollinated? And what do they think will happen if the bees are wiped out? Have they no sense whatsoever? (I know the answer to that last one)

[Fleecewife]

A big Organic movement and Nature figurehead in Britain is Prince Charles.  I wonder if he's working on this one?  If he asked his Ma to put in a good word, is she allowed to do that?

[Womble]

Folks, I've looked into the science on this one and the evidence isn't as clear cut as some people would have you believe. Neonics were developed because they are more effective at protecting young plants (usually they are applied as a seed treatment rather than a spray). The alternative is to go back to pyrethroids, which must be sprayed several times onto crops, and are known to have all sorts of nasty side effects.

I totally get the precautionary principle, and also that we absolutely need our bees. However, the ban seems to have been a knee jerk reaction not backed up by sound science. The truth is we don't really know what's killing the bees. Probably a mixture of all sorts of pressures such as habitat loss, farming practices,  parisites, pesticides and climate change.

If anybody has good links to research drawing conclusions on either side of the debate it would be good to read them, but I think we have to acknowledge that the jury's still out on this one.....

[john and helen]

they did an article on this subject last week on country file..womble is right, there was no clear evidence…

[Coeur de Chene]

Look at who funded that research... It was Syngenta, and it was a Syngenta researcher who was talking on Countryfile. Hardly unbiased reporting from the BBC.

[Fleecewife]

Look at who funded that research... It was Syngenta, and it was a Syngenta researcher who was talking on Countryfile. Hardly unbiased reporting from the BBC.

Absolutely. 

What is needed is properly conducted, unbiased trials using scientific methods, which include proper analysis of results.  This needs a number of years of trials to compare the overall effects of use of neonicotinoids measured against their absence.  That way will give some clue as to how much of any observable effect is due to neonicotinoids and how much to other factors.  Such an approach also requires a thorough exploration of the findings of both situations, not simply anecdotal evidence, which counts for nothing in science.

The old saying 'you can prove anything with science' is true, where the actual study carried out is biased towards coming to the conclusion the entity which holds the purse strings wants, in this case Syngenta.

What is being asked for here is time, time to conduct proper studies.  If Syngenta has their way, Britain will be swamped with neonicotinoids so there will be no comparison possible with the effect on bees not exposed to the chemical.

This is such an important issue, which will affect the entire ecosystem of the UK, that it must surely not be decided by one giant greed corporation and one man who doesn't even represent a majority of voters.

[Lesley Silvester]

I agree with Fleecewife. If it's not been proved either way, then it needs further research BEFORE the country is affected. It's too late when the bees have all gone to say, oh yes it was the neonicotinoids. If it can be proved that they are safe, then use them.

[Womble]

 
I see what you're both saying, and that was my initial reaction as well. However, if you ban neonicotinoids, farmers will go back to using pyrethroids, which are repeatedly sprayed onto crops (as opposed to forming a coating around the seeds). This is KNOWN to be bad for all sorts of insects and bees, rather than the neoniotinoids, which are just suspected to be, after research that exposed bees to levels of them that they'd never ever see in the natural environment.
 
This whole thing is hellish, and if we become the generation that kills the bees we'll never be forgiven. However, the reality is far more complicated than the likes of 38 degrees want to make out (and yes, I do also get their emails, but find them so biased and emotionally loaded that I'm very tempted to unsubscribe).

[Fleecewife]

Hi Womble
I've put something in the other thread on this, in Bees and Beekeeping.  All comments welcome 

[Womble]

What was the outcome on Tuesday though Fleecewife? I tried to look, but couldn't find it reported anywhere.

[Fleecewife]

What was the outcome on Tuesday though Fleecewife? I tried to look, but couldn't find it reported anywhere.

Nor could I, though I've no idea how long the results will take to appear.  Just have to keep checking I suppose.

[Fleecewife]

From 38degrees:

Wonderful news, we’ve protected our bees! Yesterday Syngenta withdrew their controversial application to allow their banned bee-killer pesticides back on UK fields. [1]

Owen Paterson, the environment minister, sided with Syngenta. But the decision was deemed so toxic that it was brought all the way up to the Prime Minister and his cabinet to discuss.

 

[Bionic]