[Rosemary]

I can't leave a little calf out all night without its mammy  It'll be traumatised. Won't the cow that's in for milking be traumatised as well?

I think I might stlll be seeing cows as sheep with four tits.

If all the cows get used to cake, I'll NEVER just get one in - I'll get squished in the rush

So, I halter Annie and take her in to the byre, give her some hay and leave her tied up for a few hours. Meanwhile, the calf is dossing in the field with the others. After a few hours, I give Annie some cake and sugar beet and milk her, then take her back to the field.

And the calf won't come to any harm?

[SallyintNorth]

The calf will come to no harm!  Mummy coos leave their calfies curled up in the reshes for hours when they're wee'uns.  And the other mammies will keep an eye on Annie's calf; they'll act like a herd and all protect all the young if there's any threat.  (Much more so than sheep, although sheep do do it too.)

Yes, I would normally not suggest leaving a coo on her own, nor a calf on its own.  But if Annie accepts being tied up with some hay, and gets used to that she gets cake afterwards so it's worth it, it could/should work.  Start small - tie her up for 30 mins, cake and out.  Then 45 mins, then an hour, and so on.  It lets her get used to it, and her calf too.

Good luck!  And tell us how you do.  (But maybe on a different thread?  If anyone wants to follow your experiences they won't expect to find it here!)

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I think because they produce so much milk they put a lot of their food into milk production. We sometimes get a few buffalo cows, who are high yielders, and we really have to watch them, especially in the autumn/winter. My advice would be just keep an eye on her and make sure she doesn't go down hill. You could feed her extra food just to help her along a bit, thats if you think she might be getting a bit too thin. As soon as she starts getting very thin then pull the calves. For now I would just keep an eye on her. 

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Seeing that we have a dairy expert (or several) on the forum, I thought I'd start a thread on feeding the dairy/house cow.

I am struggling a bit to get it right with my Jerseys.

Initially, wanting a house cow or two which would rear their own calves and give milk for the house, I was looking for something relatively low yielding, either a dairy cross or a three-quartered dairy reject.  However, BH wouldn't countenance anything but a pedigree Jersey heifer, so that's where I started.

(Had I known then what I know now, I would have convinced him to let me have Shetlands.  But now I have my Jerseys, I couldn't be without them   )

Well I knew a high-yielding Jersey heifer was going to be waaaayyy too productive for my requirement, so bought calves to set on her alongside her own.  Hillie reared 4 calves her first year, 5 calves the second year, she and her daughter reared 6 calves between them last year (that should've been 9, but I had other things on my plate so they got an easy year ) and their first 4 calves this year are just ready to wean now.

I've also taken milk for the pet lambs each year.

I find I can manage the milk production reasonably well by how much cake I give; when the grass is good and I'm just taking a couple of litres or so for the house, I don't really need to be giving any cake if she's just got one calf, and only a little if she has two young ones.  By the time the calves are 4 months old (I keep them on to 4 or sometimes 5 months), she'll need a bit of cake to help her once the grass is past its best.

Plenty was born here and has never been fed or reared for stupendous production.  I guess she gives about 15L a day with a bit of cake; at the moment, rearing her own strapping great 4 month-old heifer and getting raided by one of the set-on Herefords too, plus me taking between 3L and 4.5L a day, she loses weight if I give her less than 2kg 18% protein cake per day.

Hillie was reared on a diary farm, destined for the commercial dairy.  Her output has always been high (and her bag huge.)  Because Plenty gives less, and I milk Plenty (she's easier and faster to milk than Hillie), the two set-ons mostly drink from Hillie.  Plus Plenty's calf suckles Hillie if she's drained Plenty.  So I can only guess how much Hillie is producing, but it must be at least 25L, probably quite a bit more.

I am struggling to keep weight on Hillie.  If I feed her more she just seems to produce more milk, and the calves don't need more, so that's a waste of money.

I am thinking that, being bred and reared as a high-production cow, she actually needs to be fed for maximum production in order to carry any weight, so I am thinking I should probably put more calves on her to use up the additional milk. 

Does that make sense?  Or is there some trick of feeding a dairy cow which puts weight on the cow without increasing the milk yield?

You could have the beginning to a very good quality milking herd, a cow which produces that much could be worth a lot of money.

[renee]

but how do you manage the cow and calf if you are milking?

.

I had a lot of beginners luck (and help from Sally) with my heifer.
As with Shetalnds they have the instint of small holder cows. Of course the countryside around here is not as hosptable as many areas in Scotland so my heifer was stabled all winter before I got her. This meant that I was easily able to take her in to my neighbours winter quarters and fasten her. Her calf is in a calf box next to her. No trauma . He is allowed to drink milk whilst I milk and then stays with her two hours. She then goes out to the other cows and he comes back into his box. In the evening she is standing at the gate waiting to come in. In a week or so the cows will go up to the summer pastures and the calf will be in the field near the house. The cows go all over the mountain and forests during the day but she will come home in the evening. I hope the others will follow. They are not milked so they have to be driven into the pen. The lead cow has a sender in it's collar and that is fine except when the battery is flat! Sometimes They meet a bear then they come home`! Then I will be able to milk in the evening but, trial and error, not sure yet how I will manage the calf.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

but how do you manage the cow and calf if you are milking?

.

I had a lot of beginners luck (and help from Sally) with my heifer.
As with Shetalnds they have the instint of small holder cows. Of course the countryside around here is not as hosptable as many areas in Scotland so my heifer was stabled all winter before I got her. This meant that I was easily able to take her in to my neighbours winter quarters and fasten her. Her calf is in a calf box next to her. No trauma . He is allowed to drink milk whilst I milk and then stays with her two hours. She then goes out to the other cows and he comes back into his box. In the evening she is standing at the gate waiting to come in. In a week or so the cows will go up to the summer pastures and the calf will be in the field near the house. The cows go all over the mountain and forests during the day but she will come home in the evening. I hope the others will follow. They are not milked so they have to be driven into the pen. The lead cow has a sender in it's collar and that is fine except when the battery is flat! Sometimes They meet a bear then they come home`! Then I will be able to milk in the evening but, trial and error, not sure yet how I will manage the calf.

Our system is similar, the calf gets taken away from the mother in the evening, we milk the mother in the morning and the calf gets the rest of the milk and stays with his mother for the rest of the day. 

[VSS]

Okay.

In each pic, Plenty is to the right of Hillie.  Hillie is Plenty's mum.  Hillie is in her 4th lactation, Plenty in her 2nd.

First pic is early April, calves just over a month old.  Hillie about where I'd like her to stay, Plenty still carrying good condition and I expected her to lose a bit of this.

Second pic is nearly a month later, they're skinny enough now for Jerseys in full lactation.

Third pic is 10 days ago.  Too thin now, look at the spine, standing proud of the ribs.  If these were sheep I'd be giving them CS1.5  .  That's too low.

Sally, looks to me like a cow that is milking hard. She looks well though, so I wouldn't worry too much!

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks, Dot 

I guess she must be okay - Hillie is not a one for suffering in silence if there's anything wrong!    

I just don't want her to get any thinner, and felt that as she was losing condition, I better do something to halt that trend.

[Anke]

Thanks for this thread. I milk my goats and do have similar problems so just interesting to make some comparisons.... and unfortunately my OH is still refusing coos outright  ....

[Rosemary]

Thanks for this thread. I milk my goats and do have similar problems so just interesting to make some comparisons.... and unfortunately my OH is still refusing coos outright  ....

Bring him to see ours 

[langfauld easycare]

  hi sally have you had her checked for johnes . i bought one at carslile (dispersal) a few years back . we only reared calfs at time and sold on so told my kids i was bringing home a special cow we wolud be keeping . got home to find my quad had been nicked    . the jersey scoured and scoured and lost condition tested mega positive . had to tell kids that dandelion had a sore tummy so had to go live with another man  . vet said at time that jerseys were particularly prone to johnes but had she not had the stress of sale etc she probably would have lived with it ok . the up side was i bought a very young pure gurnsey at same sale and she is now a fine heifer (buttercup) . she has been tested a few times and is clear .might be worth a test .
 the other thing i thought was would it be worth giving her a fattening ration . more dairy cake would just make her produce more milk instead of putting on flesh . bit like trying to fatten lambs on ewe feed .
they look nice beasts in the photos [size=78%] she doesnt look overly lean to me . just in her working clothes [/size] [/size][size=78%] [/size]

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks LFEC.

Sorry to hear about your Dandelion, but I'm sure with Hillie it's just that she's working hard!

When you say 'fattening ration' rather than 'dairy cake', what do you mean exactly? 

[langfauld easycare]

aye was a shame . it bothered me as much that had told my kids, we will be keeping this one she wont be going anywhere !!!
 as it was a dispersal farm sale rules so no come back on seller


what a ment was if the cake your feeding is a dairy cake then its made up for helping milk production.which your not really wanting .might work to give her more a beef fattening cake .  if its just a g.p cattle cake then there wouldnt be much difference

[SallyintNorth]

Ah.  Well it's a beef 18% ration she's getting at the mo, so I might try her on a dairy cake.  It maybe would help her produce the milk without taking so much off her back.

Having said which, people have looked at the pics and don't think she looks overthin, so as long as I don't let her lose any more condition I think she'll probably be fine

Thank you everyone for your help.  I will update the thread if I learn any more or there is any change!