Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Anything else I can do for this Soay?  (Read 12506 times)

goosepimple

  • Joined May 2010
  • nr Lauder, Scottish Borders
Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« on: May 21, 2014, 12:52:43 pm »
Ok - soay ewe 3 years old, not lambed or in lamb (ever).  She had a skitty bum for ages, put it down to her eating sheep crunch over the winter and it not agreeing with her, stopped that, no change.  Took to the vets, tested for fluke and worms, both fine, she looked over various things but couldn't find anything wrong generally, still skitty bum.


5 months on she is a skeleton with a fleece covering.  She eats grass constantly and clean hay and we put out tap water rather than river water.  Myself and OH got a hold of her the other day, cleaned her up, sprayed for flies, gave her a dose of Kaolin & Morphine (vet says won't do any harm) penned her with hay and tap water.  Gave her claciject and combivit for 2 days, she was looking fine, no skitty bum.  Went out 3 days ago she is lying down can't get up.  Been syringing water, water with molasses for energy, natural live yoghurt with wholemeal bread liquified and today whizzed up green grass in the magimix with water and managed to get quite a bit down her, she was enjoying that - I'm having to put it at her mouth and she'll open it and eat.


She still can't get up - I sit under her and put her in an upright (normal) position so she can burp which she does - she looks ok, bum ok, but can't stand up - front legs have no strength, back legs more promising.. calcijected and combivited again this morning and will feed more wet grass and water shortly.


Am I torturing her - best to get her shot?  She may take a while to die otherwise.  How long should I give her before we resort to that?  I know if she was human she could take a month or so to come good again - I'm happy to nurse her but if anyone has experienced this - am I prolonging the inevitable?


Thanks for reading.
registered soay, castlemilk moorit  and north ronaldsay sheep, pygmy goats, steinbacher geese, muscovy ducks, various hens, lots of visiting mallards, a naughty border collie, a puss and a couple of guinea pigs

Daisys Mum

  • Joined May 2009
  • Scottish Borders
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 01:46:54 pm »
Oh dear! Amanda I can't offer any advice, but I suppose she is a sheep and many just seem to die for no apparent reason. Anyway good luck :fc:
Anne

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2014, 01:56:34 pm »
Did you give her flukicide anyway, regardless of what the vet said?


Was Johne's considered?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 02:07:10 pm by foobar »

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2014, 02:10:56 pm »

Yes, give a flukicide - diagnosing fluke is dodgy anyway because of its seasonality.

I have had skitty Soays, for no reason than that is what they're like - apparently about half of the island population features skitty bums.  If they persist I worm them, although not fluke as so far (19 years) we've not had fluke here.
BUT these skitty Soays haven't lost weight as your ewe has, so there's clearly something else at work.
Were she mine I would keep going with the TLC and kaolin and morph - not so much you block her up. 
Soays tend to be skitty on lush grass, so I would suggest syringing mushed up digestives rather than grass.  You could also make a porridge of ewe pencils or coarse mix and use a wide tipped syringe to give that, although you said you felt the skits originally came from eating concentrates.
Standing her periodically is excellent.  Is she passing urine and droppings when she stands?

As for how long to persist, I think that depends on whether she shows any signs of improvement at all, or continues to get worse.  Sheep can get cancers and other invisible afflictions which will kill them come what may.  There are also obscure things like Johnne's disease, but I'm not familiar with the symptoms.
Give her a few more days, and as soon as you feel she is beyond your help, and it would be better to get her put down, then do that straight away.
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Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2014, 02:27:48 pm »
Good advice from Fleecewife. I think the flukicide dose is sensible, however diagnosing chronic fluke is very easy and accurate in this sort of scenario with a blood test and can be done in house at the vets in 20 mins. Plain tube (red top) look at albumin-globulin ratio. If low albumin and high globulin with these symptoms it is highly likely to be fluke (other blood indicators are raised GGT etc)

Modified as spelling and punctuation rubbish!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 02:52:33 pm by Me »

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2014, 02:54:33 pm »
If you give a flukicide I think you need to be careful with which one you use ... I think Closantel (Flukiver) is the best choice for chronic problems as it's less harsh on the system, she will be so weak now.  And it will need to be repeated (not sure what duration sorry).

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2014, 05:15:42 pm »
My initial reaction was give her a flukicide anyway.

I am surprised at giving calcijet - what's the thinking there?  I have only ever used it for pregnancy  / post-partum problems.

If it isn't fluke then it could be Johnne's, and you don't want her infecting all the rest, so... (And be aware, the contagious agent is in the dung - our vet has even been warning us to ask the contractor to ensure he's thoroughly cleaned the muck spreader before he does ours  :o.)

 :hug:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2014, 05:28:53 pm »
 :fc: for her. You sound like you are doing your very best  :hug:


goosepimple

  • Joined May 2010
  • nr Lauder, Scottish Borders
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 05:54:42 pm »
Initial tests months ago revealed nothing.  Note what you say about the digestives fleecewife, will do.  I'll fluke her again anyway as you all seem to think it worth doing and I'll google Johnnes disease too see if that fits.


Calciject and Combivit I thought may give a kick start Sally, knew it wouldn't do any harm.


She's just eaten another good handful of clipped grass in water and drank some water with my help (via that helpful turkey baster).  Will fluke her at her next evening event before bedtime and see how she goes in the morning.


When I stand her up across my legs and hold her there we are getting good burps like winding a baby but she doesn't pee or poo.  Lots of thunder going on in the gut when food goes in.  She's completely floppy however, can't even hold her head up.  Will keep going until the weekend then take it from there.


Thanks everyone, will report how it goes as it's always useful info for others in the future.
registered soay, castlemilk moorit  and north ronaldsay sheep, pygmy goats, steinbacher geese, muscovy ducks, various hens, lots of visiting mallards, a naughty border collie, a puss and a couple of guinea pigs

kanisha

  • Joined Dec 2007
    • Spered Breizh Ouessants
    • Facebook
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 06:23:32 pm »
Two things not so far mentioned. I now look to boost thiamine levels (vit B1) in sheep with any continuing gastric upset. And for treatment of chronic digestive upset look to restore healthy gut flora with a probiotic and continue to treat to allow for stabilisation to take place over a period of time. My experience with these problems is that once triggered they may stabilise for a time but will reccur eventually.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 06:25:06 pm by kanisha »
Ravelry Group: - Ouessants & Company

johnaramsay

  • Joined May 2014
  • Mintlaw Peterhead
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2014, 08:57:10 pm »
Try some Vinegar in water about 10% vinegar better to use cider or wine this will stabilize the gut the other problem it may be is  is johne's disease there is no cure for this the cow or sheep just wastes away hope this helps

goosepimple

  • Joined May 2010
  • nr Lauder, Scottish Borders
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2014, 09:29:20 pm »
thanks last two inputs, yes she did clear up a while back but it came back...am using live yoghurt a bit each day.  Vinegar is a new one to me although I've used it for hens so possibly worth a try too, many thanks.


She just ate 5 handfuls of grass and a slice of wholemeal bread and water but still have to hold her head up to do it.  At least she's not nervous of me any more.
registered soay, castlemilk moorit  and north ronaldsay sheep, pygmy goats, steinbacher geese, muscovy ducks, various hens, lots of visiting mallards, a naughty border collie, a puss and a couple of guinea pigs

ladyK

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Conwy Valley
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2014, 09:37:58 pm »
I can't add anything to the advice given already but I do keep my fingers crossed for your girl - you are really doing all you can.  :hug:
"If one way is better than another, it is the way of nature." (Aristotle)

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2014, 09:40:48 pm »
My yardstick on whether or not to call in the knackerman is what the sheep's quality of life is like. 

Tim W

  • Joined Aug 2013
Re: Anything else I can do for this Soay?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2014, 09:49:27 pm »
My yardstick on whether or not to call in the knackerman is what the sheep's quality of life is like.

+ 1

All too often we can try to be kind but just end up prolonging the agony

 

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