[shygirl]

who has trained their own sheepdog and where do you start?
is it enough to buy a dog from a litter from a working sheepdog or do only some of the litter have the potential?

[Ideation]

Yes.

And you start by learning from someone who keeps real good sheep dogs.

It's the best way, or you can muddle a long with books and dvdd.

I think a lot of well bred collies have the instinct for a bit of herding, and for a few sheep, in small enough fields, you will figure it out by trial and error perhaps.

But for working large numbers, hard ground, open spaces of stubborn sheep. . . . . . you need to train it well.

[Cheviot]

Hi Shygirl,
I train my own dogs, buying a puppy is a bit of a lottery, as they all have different personalities, even from the same litter, but that said all the working dogs were once puppies, and if you get a puppy you can train it the way you want.
The best advice that I can give you is to find someone who trains both people and dogs and book yourself some instruction from them, as there are a lot of very subtle body movements involved in starting a dog on sheep, and if you know some of this before you want to train your young dog, it will make both your lives so much easier. You can learn an awful lot from books and DVDs, but inevitably your puppy will do totally different things to what you read or watched. It is extremely satisfying to train your own dog, you get a real bond with it.
Good luck if you decide to get a puppy.
Regards
Sue

[SallyintNorth]

Find yourself a good local trainer - start on the ISDS website for a list - whose ways and style you like. 

I was lucky enough to be recommended to Derek Scrimgeour and I love the way he works, so I use his books, videos and the occasional training day with him. 

The top people have very very different styles, so it's important to find someone whose style suits you and then stick with their lessons, books, videos, etc.  Otherwise you will get horribly confused and the dog moreso!

Once you do have a go and get your own dog trained - well, I've had companion dogs of my own all my adult life, and trained any number of other people's dogs before I was old enough to have my own, but I've never experienced anything like the thrill and the joy of working as a team with a working collie dog working sheep. I just love it.  Love it. 

[Azzdodd]

I trained my dog from books and videos on YouTube.....I think I was lucky cause my dog wanted too work from the day I got him he was very sheep minded....come too think off it any animals he would try and round up! If possible you could buy a dog that had had a little work done with it say 12 months old....a good dog is irreplaceable especially on a cold wet winter day were you can just stand in the shed and send the dog out 

[langfauld easycare]

  i have trained 4 now the big dog(glen) i use daily was my first . i got some books and dvds at the start but everyone has there own style . i am lucky enough one of my neighbors is ian brownlie ( 2x scottish trialing champ)who i can phone for pointers if i get stuck . every dog is different and everyone needs differnt training  . short goes at the start . i do 15 mins and constancy are vital . to much to quick can wreck the dog. i no some people start them young 6 months on . my neighbour recommendeds leaving them till 18 months  to let them be a puppy first . give them a look to see whats going on and a short run but nothing more before then .certainly works for him and me    . from same litter you can get champions and ones that wont even look at sheep . some you need to be on top of all the time some you need to nurse round . i was struggling when i was training glen phoned up my mate told him what i was doing .he said lay of him a bit and praise him more .tryed it next time even when he was doing something wrong .good boy good boy all the time and correcting him . he was like a different dog never looked back since .


young bitch i just sold was like a fire work i had to be on top of her all time totaly different she could run faster than i could think  .when i first started her she was running well if a bit haywire then all of a sudden she would only run from the sheep to me and back again could not get her to stop .phoned up the oracle and he said take her out and ignore her she is focusing on you to much . managed to empty the field with her that day  .

[SallyintNorth]

My Dot is one of a litter of four.  Only one other in the litter works, the others were deemed no good for work.  I have always wondered whether those other two might have worked under a different regime... Dot is keen as mustard and incredibly talented (in my very biased view  ), but she can't take any reprimand.  Since in her mind she's always doing her very best and then some, she becomes completely disheartened and too worried to do anything if she's shouted at.   So I have had to adjust my thinking - no point shouting at her, she's doing what she thinks I want.  So it's my fault for not making it clear to her what I do want.  If I need her to stop doing what she is doing, I need to give her another command - lie down, that'll do or 'bike' (go and sit on the quad bike) if I can't think of an active command right at that second, not shout at her.  All shouting does is confuse her - she was doing what I asked, she thinks, and then she was shouted at.   

[Bramblecot]

Check out the dog trainers before you take your dog anywhere near them - lots of different styles and methods .  You must be ok with the methods used or you and your dog will be stressed. 

A working strain is important but puppy assessment is a work of art and from a litter there will be different temperaments in the dogs.  Even the best dog can be ruined so easily by the wrong training .  I can't bear to do dog training now as I have no patience with the owners

[shygirl]

thank for the replies - breed wise - is it best to always go for a working border colllie?

iv always wanted a bearded colllie so i have looked at working beardies, though never managed to get close to finding a  litter from working stock.

[SallyintNorth]

My neighbour has a Beardie and it works ok.  She wouldn't have another though, she says - too much hair and it's always muddy here.

If you're wanting to do trialling or anything, a border collie is likely best.  If it's just for you and smallish numbers in smallish fields, get what you like!

[shygirl]

it would be just for me, and a smallish flock. but easy of training is probably no 1 requirement.

[SallyintNorth]

If there's a trainer near you (whose style you like), s/he will probably have dogs to sell.  So that would be the best combination - the trainer will pick you a dog that will suit you.

[Ideation]

Working beardies have a harder temperament, which can be a good thing sometimes, as they are not so prone to nervousness or being highly strung as borders, but also can take a bit of handling, i.e you need to be the dominant pack leader, and keep on tops of them when young.

We tend to use beardie blood, or a mix or border/beardie in our running dogs, as we find that collie blood gives the bidability, natural knack for working cloven hoofed quarry, and good wind, feet, etc etc. But sometimes the border x's can be prone to nervousness, however, with the beardie blood they tend to be a bit more hard headed. Before the ban, seemed to have greater luck producing a fox dog out of beardie blood also.

I know that's quite off topic. . . . .

[Bramblecot]

Maybe go for one that has had initial training.  That way you can see what type of character has already developed, and which you like.  The wrong partnership is an unhappy non-partnership.
 
I've had a few working dogs, none as puppies, and most were rejected by other trainers.  Just because a dog does not suit one person, it can still be useful to someone else and our working dogs had often been re-handled.  My two best dogs had both  'done the rounds' but were ideal for me RIP P and J.

[Ideation]

Very true BC.

Also what does not make one mans grade may make another.

My old man trained and trailed spaniels for years, and some that would not make his grade, were perfect for someone wanting a rough shooting companion.

Similar in collies, if you are herding 20 sheep, and doing in every so often, a dog may suit you, that may not suit someone running hundreds of sheep on a hill farm.

Best thing is always to go and watch dogs working, and being trained etc and get a bit of a handle on it all.