The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: shygirl on April 26, 2014, 07:12:12 pm
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who has trained their own sheepdog and where do you start?
is it enough to buy a dog from a litter from a working sheepdog or do only some of the litter have the potential?
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Yes.
And you start by learning from someone who keeps real good sheep dogs.
It's the best way, or you can muddle a long with books and dvdd.
I think a lot of well bred collies have the instinct for a bit of herding, and for a few sheep, in small enough fields, you will figure it out by trial and error perhaps.
But for working large numbers, hard ground, open spaces of stubborn sheep. . . . . . you need to train it well.
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Hi Shygirl,
I train my own dogs, buying a puppy is a bit of a lottery, as they all have different personalities, even from the same litter, but that said all the working dogs were once puppies, and if you get a puppy you can train it the way you want.
The best advice that I can give you is to find someone who trains both people and dogs and book yourself some instruction from them, as there are a lot of very subtle body movements involved in starting a dog on sheep, and if you know some of this before you want to train your young dog, it will make both your lives so much easier. You can learn an awful lot from books and DVDs, but inevitably your puppy will do totally different things to what you read or watched. It is extremely satisfying to train your own dog, you get a real bond with it.
Good luck if you decide to get a puppy.
Regards
Sue
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Find yourself a good local trainer - start on the ISDS website for a list - whose ways and style you like.
I was lucky enough to be recommended to Derek Scrimgeour and I love the way he works, so I use his books, videos and the occasional training day with him.
The top people have very very different styles, so it's important to find someone whose style suits you and then stick with their lessons, books, videos, etc. Otherwise you will get horribly confused and the dog moreso!
Once you do have a go and get your own dog trained - well, I've had companion dogs of my own all my adult life, and trained any number of other people's dogs before I was old enough to have my own, but I've never experienced anything like the thrill and the joy of working as a team with a working collie dog working sheep. I just love it. Love it.
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I trained my dog from books and videos on YouTube.....I think I was lucky cause my dog wanted too work from the day I got him he was very sheep minded....come too think off it any animals he would try and round up! If possible you could buy a dog that had had a little work done with it say 12 months old....a good dog is irreplaceable especially on a cold wet winter day were you can just stand in the shed and send the dog out :roflanim:
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:wave: i have trained 4 now the big dog(glen) i use daily was my first . i got some books and dvds at the start but everyone has there own style . i am lucky enough one of my neighbors is ian brownlie ( 2x scottish trialing champ)who i can phone for pointers if i get stuck . every dog is different and everyone needs differnt training . short goes at the start . i do 15 mins and constancy are vital . to much to quick can wreck the dog. i no some people start them young 6 months on . my neighbour recommendeds leaving them till 18 months to let them be a puppy first . give them a look to see whats going on and a short run but nothing more before then .certainly works for him and me :thumbsup: . from same litter you can get champions and ones that wont even look at sheep . some you need to be on top of all the time some you need to nurse round . i was struggling when i was training glen phoned up my mate told him what i was doing .he said lay of him a bit and praise him more .tryed it next time even when he was doing something wrong .good boy good boy all the time and correcting him . he was like a different dog never looked back since .
young bitch i just sold was like a fire work i had to be on top of her all time totaly different she could run faster than i could think :) .when i first started her she was running well if a bit haywire then all of a sudden she would only run from the sheep to me and back again could not get her to stop .phoned up the oracle and he said take her out and ignore her she is focusing on you to much . managed to empty the field with her that day ;) .
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My Dot is one of a litter of four. Only one other in the litter works, the others were deemed no good for work. I have always wondered whether those other two might have worked under a different regime... Dot is keen as mustard and incredibly talented (in my very biased view :D), but she can't take any reprimand. Since in her mind she's always doing her very best and then some, she becomes completely disheartened and too worried to do anything if she's shouted at. So I have had to adjust my thinking - no point shouting at her, she's doing what she thinks I want. So it's my fault for not making it clear to her what I do want. If I need her to stop doing what she is doing, I need to give her another command - lie down, that'll do or 'bike' (go and sit on the quad bike) if I can't think of an active command right at that second, not shout at her. All shouting does is confuse her - she was doing what I asked, she thinks, and then she was shouted at. :'( ???
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Check out the dog trainers before you take your dog anywhere near them - lots of different styles and methods ;) . You must be ok with the methods used or you and your dog will be stressed.
A working strain is important but puppy assessment is a work of art and from a litter there will be different temperaments in the dogs. Even the best dog can be ruined so easily by the wrong training :( . I can't bear to do dog training now as I have no patience with the owners ::)
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thank for the replies - breed wise - is it best to always go for a working border colllie?
iv always wanted a bearded colllie so i have looked at working beardies, though never managed to get close to finding a litter from working stock.
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My neighbour has a Beardie and it works ok. She wouldn't have another though, she says - too much hair and it's always muddy here. ::)
If you're wanting to do trialling or anything, a border collie is likely best. If it's just for you and smallish numbers in smallish fields, get what you like!
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it would be just for me, and a smallish flock. but easy of training is probably no 1 requirement.
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If there's a trainer near you (whose style you like), s/he will probably have dogs to sell. So that would be the best combination - the trainer will pick you a dog that will suit you. ;)
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Working beardies have a harder temperament, which can be a good thing sometimes, as they are not so prone to nervousness or being highly strung as borders, but also can take a bit of handling, i.e you need to be the dominant pack leader, and keep on tops of them when young.
We tend to use beardie blood, or a mix or border/beardie in our running dogs, as we find that collie blood gives the bidability, natural knack for working cloven hoofed quarry, and good wind, feet, etc etc. But sometimes the border x's can be prone to nervousness, however, with the beardie blood they tend to be a bit more hard headed. Before the ban, seemed to have greater luck producing a fox dog out of beardie blood also.
I know that's quite off topic. . . . .
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Maybe go for one that has had initial training. That way you can see what type of character has already developed, and which you like. The wrong partnership is an unhappy non-partnership.
I've had a few working dogs, none as puppies, and most were rejected by other trainers. Just because a dog does not suit one person, it can still be useful to someone else and our working dogs had often been re-handled. My two best dogs had both 'done the rounds' but were ideal for me :dog: :hug: RIP P and J.
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Very true BC.
Also what does not make one mans grade may make another.
My old man trained and trailed spaniels for years, and some that would not make his grade, were perfect for someone wanting a rough shooting companion.
Similar in collies, if you are herding 20 sheep, and doing in every so often, a dog may suit you, that may not suit someone running hundreds of sheep on a hill farm.
Best thing is always to go and watch dogs working, and being trained etc and get a bit of a handle on it all.
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I was given one already-working dog - and he taught me a lot! Still think of you, Ted :love: :dog: - by a farmer who did sheepdog trials; Ted was a good worker but not trials material, and as we needed two, I also went on a 'sheepdog experience' day with a fella who trains and deals (as well as trials.) We worked his dogs that he had at the time, many of whom were for sale.
He had earmarked Jaff for me, an 18 month old Killibrae-bred dog, and he was a super dog, but I knew that he'd have had the beating of me for where I was in working collie handling at the time. Skip, a semi-trained 2-year old Alan had only bought as he was penmate to Jaff, was an easier dog, we clicked and I knew I would be able to handle him. I've never regretted that choice :love: :dog:.
I had also been offered a working dog that didn't suit the farmer who had her - too soppy for him, he said she was a "woman's dog" ;) - and she'd have been great for working in fields but I wasn't sure she'd cope with hundreds of acres of moorland.
So you can find part-trained dogs that are perfectly fine, just haven't suited whoever owns them.
When I knew enough to have some confidence I wouldn't ruin a pup, I got Dot. Any problems she has are all my fault :) - I can't blame her previous training and handling! lol
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We bought the best we could find, I trained through reading/watching then at 2 years old (now) I am going on a course 11th May for 10 weeks £90 I think that's a great investment in my dogs health & happiness
Old wives tale if the roof of their mouth is black they will work
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yip i agree with sally .sometimes the dog and owner just dont gell goes to someone else and is a great dog. however you can buy someone elses problems to . my first dog merc was 8 when i bought him (glens dad) an old red dog was hard as iron but stubborn (red head ) . i could tell when he was in one .i would send him out the left and he would go right :D . if he didnt like the way you were doing it he would just go and lie down in the huff .but again once you realise whats going on you can work round it .
something else to remember some of the top trial dogs are no use as everyday workers .,more than a dozen sheep and they are beat . also some people selling dogs will let you see it working but only at the thing its good at concentrating on that and it makes the dog look great till you try another task and its hopeless .
most i no will take your money and give you a week if the dogs not suitable will take it back refund the money .
another thing i found when training glen was he got on better on his own, if old merc was there he would hold back .
i have glens daughter a lovely red bitch called fly she is about a year old but isnt showing much interest . she showed more interest at 8 weeks when we got her back as stud fee trying to heard the goats we had which i never checked her for .
its like she is more worried to get a row hopefully she will come good :fc: .sometimes it just like switching on a light .she would make a good agility dog as girls have her jumping through tyres and onto trailers etc.
another thing its worth remembering they are not machines and have of days just like us. usualy when you are in a hurry to get loaded for market. :roflanim:
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We bought the best we could find, I trained through reading/watching then at 2 years old (now) I am going on a course 11th May for 10 weeks £90 I think that's a great investment in my dogs health & happiness
Old wives tale if the roof of their mouth is black they will work
yea always told that one as a kid red dogs roof of mouth was pink .to be fair if picking a pup i do still check just incase ;)
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Has anyone had success with a cross breed as a sheep dog? reason I ask is because our 18 month old is showing a keen interest in keeping the flocks (sheep and chickens) in one place. He's proved very easy to train and has a thirst to learn, be kept active (physically and mentally) and I do believe he was 'sired' by a local working collie.
There was a rumour that he was a samoyed cross but I'll stick a pic on here and let you decide what you think he is
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Collies have a lot of instinct - many come out of the womb knowing how to move sheep, really they do, all the trainer has to do is "put a word on it" so they can ask for that behaviour again.
But there's no reason a crossbreed can't be trained to work your own livestock. (Given that I know you to be a very careful and considerate owner who won't take risks with your dog near other people's livestock!) It won't be the same as a 100% working collie from working lines, but any dog, any breed, can be trained to go around sheep - or ducks, goats, or anything else - and so on. The chap I bought the moorland farm from had a 'proper' working collie, plus they used their Jack Russell to help in the pens. He knew 'Come By' (clockwise around the sheep), 'Awaaay' (anticlockwise around the sheep) and 'Lie Down' (stop where you are and stare at the sheep), and of course 'That'll do' (come back to me.)
I had a collie cross rescue dog who hated to see livestock 'untidy' ;) - and was very very good at rounding them up into a nice tidy circle!
I didn't farm at the time, so lovely Horace had to be taught that it was naughty to even look at sheep. :(
I often think how happy he'd have been to be with me now, and allowed to work the sheep!
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Thank you for your reply Sally - that's really good to know. He is so keen to 'work' and he's one of these dogs that is glued to my side (I cant' even move my car off the drive to let hubby get his car out without murphy having to join me)
We completed the 'sheep safe' course last year and I will contact the lady who ran that to discuss further training now that Murphy is that bit older and (hopefully) coming out of the terrible teens - he's certainly got fantastic recall now, even with distractions and I'm sure you probably remember me tearing my hair out that this would never happen!
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Good plan to go back to the sheep safe trainer ;)
You've worked very hard with Murphy and your persistence has been amply rewarded :hug:
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Good luck with your puppy, don't know why but the % of useless puppies seems to be increasing maybe trialling or a limited gene pool ?? I always used to buy 6- 12mth old untrained but showing the right abilities never had a dud then in about 98 I started buying a puppy every 2 yrs, out of 7 pups 4 good enough to keep and 3 I was very lucky to give away as pets .( pedigree trialing stock / one parent pedigree / non pedigree ) makes no difference , so now ive gone back to buying youngsters ready to go .
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Has anyone had success with a cross breed as a sheep dog? reason I ask is because our 18 month old is showing a keen interest in keeping the flocks (sheep and chickens) in one place. He's proved very easy to train and has a thirst to learn, be kept active (physically and mentally) and I do believe he was 'sired' by a local working collie.
There was a rumour that he was a samoyed cross but I'll stick a pic on here and let you decide what you think he is
:wave: when you look at the top picture you can see collie in it . my friend near avonbridge had a collie x doberman which worked sheep well . it looked like a pure doberman but had a small white white diamond on its chest . it was a sight to see . people used to stop thinking that the sheep were being worried .quite a basic worker but good .
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Has anyone had success with a cross breed as a sheep dog? reason I ask is because our 18 month old is showing a keen interest in keeping the flocks (sheep and chickens) in one place. He's proved very easy to train and has a thirst to learn, be kept active (physically and mentally) and I do believe he was 'sired' by a local working collie.
There was a rumour that he was a samoyed cross but I'll stick a pic on here and let you decide what you think he is
:wave: when you look at the top picture you can see collie in it . my friend near avonbridge had a collie x doberman which worked sheep well . it looked like a pure doberman but had a small white white diamond on its chest . it was a sight to see . people used to stop thinking that the sheep were being worried .quite a basic worker but good .
:thumbsup: that's really positive to hear. I have a feeling this one will be basic but he's keen for sure.
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I run 3 working dogs and they are all different personalities. You won't find what your pup is like until he/she grows up a bit and has the confidence to handle the sheep.
Try to get a pup from working stock, as opposed from 'farm dogs' which many are bloody useless. There are lots of collies out there that are allowed to breed without thoughts of where they will end up. To many they are just pocket money alongside the rest of the farm livestock.
Before you buy a pup you need to see both it's mum and dad working and if you can't leave it there. Your going to need to spend a number of weeks on yard work teaching your pup the basics before ever showing the pup sheep.
The last pup I got cost me £100, both his mum and dad were registered, but he wasn't. He is now almost 2 years old and I turned down £1000 for him off a local farmer the other week. He will need another 6 months or so before I'm satisfied he will replace my older dog Ben..Ben is a natural working collie and the sort that comes along very very rarely.
Take your time, as if you buy a wrong one your going to be in an awkward situation.
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Ben is a natural working collie and the sort that comes along very very rarely.
Treat yourself to a Killibrae dog. Derek only breeds from dogs which are registered and work well on the hill, as well as in trials or have trials potential. Of course any litter could include a non-worker or two, but if thoughtfully bred that should be a rarity.
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If you get a pup what age should you allow it round sheep? We had one from parents who came from working stock but didn't work. He watched the chickens and was always trying to move them around but take him in with a couple of sheep and he would hide from the lambs. He was only 6 months by then but didn't seem too interested in chasing or trying to round up. Does this not happen until older?
I don't need one at the moment but keen to know what to look for and how to get going especially as I don't have another to learn from.
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Very experienced handlers may take quite a young pup to sheep, but they know how to be sure the pup doesn't get a fright and get put off - and also how to protect the sheep!
Some people say that some dogs show no interest until 18 months and then suddenly switch on. Others reckon if they aren't interested in sheep at 6 months they never will be.
I took Dot to one of Derek's training days to get him to help me start her. (That is, to give me the confidence to start her ;).) Worth every penny and then some ;D - I'd never have had the guts to let her do what came naturally off lead without him showing me how to manage it.
If you can get a copy of Derek's DVD "The Shepherd's Pup", that will give you some ideas and some training you can do before the dog gets with the sheep. (And also some things to not do with a pup that'll be working sheep ;) )
But as has been said before, all trainers have very different systems and styles, so you can get yourself - and your dog - in a real old muddle if you watch /read / use material from several different trainers. So ideally, pick a trainer whose style you like and who is near(ish) to you, and stick to their advice ;)
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Can you get part-trained young dogs that are also house trained?
I'm thinking about getting a dog but it'll be the only dog in the house and it'll be a part time worker and part time pet so I'll need it house trained. I'm guessing most working dogs are kennelled outside?
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"black roof to the mouth" is traditionally a guide. Mine has a black rear end as well where I put a rocket up it's bum from time to time :excited:
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Yes, typically working dogs are kennelled. TBH, they're likely to be too soft if kept in the house! Skip & Dot love to come in for a treat, but 10 minutes or so is usually enough, then they're panting their heads off and overheating.
Some learn to be clean in the house pretty quick - just put them out if they look like they're about to pee, and don't bring them back in again that day; they're collies so they get it after a couple of expulsions! - and some don't.
When I brought Skip home I let him choose. He's always loved to come into the house to be with everyone, and for some fuss, and after a long hard day (and/or, when he and Ted were first working together, a long hard fight ::)), but just for 20 minutes or so, then he's too hot. And he's always chosen to sleep in his kennel, even when he had a kennel in the garden and we left the back door open.
Edited to say that some working dogs will have been house-trained - some breeders socialise them with the family, so they will have learned young, even if they're used to sleeping outside.
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Regards house training. We have had lots of retired gundogs. They have lived exclusively in kennels and then we had them as house dogs. They all house trained very quickly .... even the oldies. Just trained them the same way that you would house train any puppy. Take out frequently, stay with them til business done and then lots of praise. Watch in the house, you can tell if they need to go ... out you go with them. If they did have an accident and to be honest I can't remember them having any, then try to catch them in the act. As trained dogs they should know a 'no' command. So use that and take out. Ours went from complete kennel dogs to complete house dogs. Never any problems. Sure house training wouldn't be a real issue but the suitability of 'some' older collies to living full time in the house I'm not so sure about. Think you would have to look at temperament very carefully. Been looking after neighbours 20 collies for few weeks. Some of them I would be wary of taking as house dogs.
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Thanks both, that is useful info.
Good temperament would be essential, it'd have to get along with our ferret, the cat and the chickens, i.e. safe to be left alone with them. Oh and my nieces :).
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With working collies you will need to make sure the nieces respect the dog(s) and its/their boundaries. Collies have an instinctual lightening snap. If you want a dog that would never ever ever snap at a child under any amount of provocation, don't get a collie.
And on that vein... I wish tourists didn't feel compelled to approach my working collies :rant:. Bad enough if the dogs are on the ground, but some of them will approach a dog on the back of the quad bike. :rant: :rant: It really makes me seethe - which I have to conceal, as if the dogs picked up that vibe, I'd have a problem for sure!
Honestly - you wouldn't approach a dog in a car with an open window, so why do people think it's safe or sensible to approach a collie on the back of a quad bike?!! >:( If the dog doesn't want the attention (and most such people seem completely unable to read collie body language ::)), the dog has only two options. 1. Bite. 2. Run away. Mine so far have always taken the latter option - but most often when this happens I am stopped at a gate while I open or close it. So now I have my collie dog on the road, scared and running away and at risk of being hit by a car and/or causing an accident.
Sorry, must be the sleep deprivation making me even more of a grumpy old woman than usual.
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With working collies you will need to make sure the nieces respect the dog(s) and its/their boundaries. Collies have an instinctual lightening snap. If you want a dog that would never ever ever snap at a child under any amount of provocation, don't get a collie.
And on that vein... I wish tourists didn't feel compelled to approach my working collies :rant:. Bad enough if the dogs are on the ground, but some of them will approach a dog on the back of the quad bike. :rant: :rant: It really makes me seethe - which I have to conceal, as if the dogs picked up that vibe, I'd have a problem for sure!
Honestly - you wouldn't approach a dog in a car with an open window, so why do people think it's safe or sensible to approach a collie on the back of a quad bike?!! >:( If the dog doesn't want the attention (and most such people seem completely unable to read collie body language ::)), the dog has only two options. 1. Bite. 2. Run away. Mine so far have always taken the latter option - but most often when this happens I am stopped at a gate while I open or close it. So now I have my collie dog on the road, scared and running away and at risk of being hit by a car and/or causing an accident.
Sorry, must be the sleep deprivation making me even more of a grumpy old woman than usual.
I can sympathise with you. I think a lot of people just don't have common sense when it comes to dogs, they don't (or are unable to ) 'think dog' - most likely if they are not dog owners.
I've always brought my children up to ask owners first before approaching a dog, or to just ignore strangers dogs preferably. Next door has a lurcher and a spaniel, both friendly but i've told the children that they are never to stroke them over the fence as the dog is in its own territory.
the border collie book that was recommended to me by several people on this site is invaluable for teaching potential owners about dogs and children etc. Barbara sykes book it is. Murphy has his own space and if he goes in there then no-one is to bother him. There's also some good pics online which show dog body language (you know, the ones where someone daft adult has let their child crawl all over a dog and the dog is panting, whites of eyes showing an dgenerally looking hacked off)
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A working Collie needs a waterproof dry run to live in, so that you know where it is when your going out or leaving the dog unattended.
The kennel is their place and they will be better off in a space of their own rather than sharing your home and space.
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A working Collie needs a waterproof dry run to live in, so that you know where it is when your going out or leaving the dog unattended.
The kennel is their place and they will be better off in a space of their own rather than sharing your home and space.
Even if they are on their lonesome? I thought as they are a pack animal they would prefer company. It can have it's own "space" in the house.
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Foobar, we had a working collie pup for a while. Sadly not with us now :'(. Wasn't to be healthwise so don't know for certain how it would have worked out in the end. But ...... if I am honest that particular pup was not well suited to life in the house. We have children but they are older and are wise around dogs, including around collies. She did growl and snap at them and growled at us. I don't believe she was aggressive as such but she did not want and couldn't cope with life in a family home .... even with her own space. She didn't want even a hand dropped on her if she wasn't in the mood and didn't always give clear messages about when she wanted contact and when she didn't. We were going to work her and I have a neighbour with 50 years experience who was going to help me. As a dog to work and to be a house dog , although we loved her, she wasn't great. Her breeder told us that her grandfather had a similar temperament in that even in the yard he was 'distant' and didn't want human contact. He was however the best trial dog he had owned. (didn't tell us about temperament until we talked about her character with him). We did meet mum and dad and they seemed fine but so did our pup when she was outdoors. Confined in the house and the pressures that go with it was a different story.
When we lost her my neighbour told me to get another, that we had been unlucky in terms of her temperament. Well maybe but wouldn't personally have another collie as a house dog. I'm not saying I would never have a collie again but it would be out in kennels for at least part of the time (probably , yes, with canine company) and wouldn't have a dog kept in that way unless I had more land and more sheep ... more work to keep that dog stimulated. I would have them indoors but for short periods when they wanted it.
We have a working line lab now and yes full of energy and yes needs to be stimulated. Having great fun training her but she can live as a house dog very happily.
Possibly we were unlucky but just thought I would share in case it helps anyone else. I think especially true if taking on an older collie so I can understand CF's post. Sure it has worked out for many folk though :).
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We've had a range of working dogs, including collies both living in and out of the house. I agree that a lot of dogs like their own space and also seem to over heat quite easily, so a kennel is the best bet. However, some seen to live in with no problems, and it doesn't seem to effect their working ability one bit. In fact with some dogs, i've found the greater amount of time living in the dogs company has formed a stronger bond, of course you can have equally as strong bonds with kennelled dogs.
I also like having a collie / collie bred lurcher, around the house, as they make fantastic guard dogs. As said, they can be real sharp if needed.
Although there was one issue with a rambler, straying from the foot path and looking in one of the sheds, just having a wee peak at the quad etc. Well, you can imagine what the collie thought. Queue visit from the police.
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Although there was one issue with a rambler, straying from the foot path and looking in one of the sheds, just having a wee peak at the quad etc. Well, you can imagine what the collie thought. Queue visit from the police.
Did the police say you were in the wrong ?
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Police saw sense, dog now needs to be on a chain in the yard though.
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they need the basics setting down first so that would include sit, stay, come, lye down then you can introduce the dog to some easy sheep that are calm and without any lambs either inside them or at foot. try herding the sheep yourself and a normal collie will soon see what you are doing and join in
but as said try and find someone who trains sheep dogs and spend some time with them and your pup
Cheers
Ed
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Andy Nickless dvd's? they are a good way to learn some basics. He also runs courses. I enquired about our dog as hes so good already with the sheep (since we did the sheep safe course in malvern) and they've said he can go to a trial training day.
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We're on the look out for a dog retired off the hill. if anyone knows of anything?
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Would a collie x lurcher round sheep? I miss my old lurcher but she used to run the other way unless she wanted to play. Would love a mix that might help me if needed.
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mine is collieXterrier and the lady I spoke to at Andy Nickless training said that terriers are used as herding (cattle )dogs in some place which I didn't know.
I have one really hard to catch ewe and today found that she's been struck with blowflies, without murphy I'd have had a struggle as she was going into the long thistles, he kept her head to head in one place while I treated her (for 20 minutes bless him!) it can be done and although my dog is never going to win gold cups or be the next Auld Hemp, he still earns his keep amazingly.
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Scotsgirl - I have a collie x lurcher here, or rather a lurcher with collie on both her sire and dams side. The problem with trying to train a lurcher for herding, is that ultimately herding is just a version of hunting, where you are playing upon the dogs (collies) hunting drive, they are part of a hunt, driving the sheep (the quarry) to the alpha animal (you) to deal with. This works well, because we have harnessed this form of prey/hunt drive in such a way for generations. However, with lurchers, we have harnessed a slightly different form of this prey drive, and in a different way. My lurcher is broken to all stock, sheep included, but if I encouraged her to work them, her version of 'work', would be to catch, rather than to drive. The sighthound in her would push her to chase and single out, rather than to push them toward the alpha member of the pack. Of course it could work, but in my opinion it would be hard training and you would get a fair few sticky mess ups, where you had encouraged your running dog to 'hunt' sheep . . . . . . . . . and then had to deal with the aftermath!