[Beeducked]

Sorry for a bit of a rambling post but it's been an anxious day.


We are due to our first lambing from the middle of this week or so and have been busy getting everything sorted. We have a tiny flock of just 5 Castlemilk Moorits, 4 of which have lambed before. I have been through lambing before as I used to help my Grandfather with his small flock of Jacobs and at the local farm at lambing. That was quite a long time ago though!
My girls and tup have been out in the field with access to the barn where they are fed to get them used to it.
I went to put them in this morning in preparation for lambing and noticed one of the ewes had a vaginal prolapse. Could have only been there for an hour or so as she didn't have it when I looked in on them first thing. It went back in very easily and seems to have stayed in. I thought it has come out again later in the afternoon but on checking all was fine.
She seems pretty settled at the moment and there is no evidence she is in labour at the moment although seems to have bagged up a little so hopefully not long. I have put her in an individual pen so I don't have to chase her round if there are further problems.
Is there anything else I should be doing for her?
I am aware that this can occur with dead lambs or malpresentation so having a bit of a panic and imagining the worst. In theory Thursday is the earliest they should lamb (hopefully sheep read the same books I do!).


Sorry for such a long and gabbly post. Looks like my first lambing may be a bit of a baptism of fire.

[shygirl]

I presume she has lambed before? was she with you when she lambed? did she prolapse before?

[SallyintNorth]

Pre-lambing vaginal prolapse is not uncommon in commercial sheep.  Keep an eye on it, if it starts to not go back in when she stands up and moves around then you may need to do something to stop her everting the vagina completely. 

Being such a wee sheep, you wouldn't want to use a prolapse spoon  .  Whether a regular prolapse harness would be overlarge, or whether you could get a petite one, I don't know.  Otherwise it'd be the vet for a circular suture which you would need to cut when she starts to lamb.

Generally it is thought that the pre-lambing prolapse is caused by the ewe running out of room inside.  If she's carrying multiple large lambs, and trying to eat enough grass to feed herself and the lambs and make milk, and especially if she's a little on the fat side, reducing the available space even further, then eventually there just isn't enough room!  So in later pregnancy it can be very important to feed sufficient cake that the ewe isn't trying to cram overmuch bulky forage into a decreasing space in order to get the nutrients she needs.    Ironically sometimes you may need to feed a fatter ewe more cake than a thinner one, as she has less room for bulky forage!  (Which also explains why it isn't only thin sheep which get twin lamb disease )

All of which generally applies to commercial sheep rather than primitives.  Especially primitives carrying purebred lambs. 

So I regret to say that in a primitive carrying purebred lambs, and that is not overweight, I would be concerned about dead lambs.   

[shygirl]

that's really interesting sally.
can you explain why the lamb would be dead? if dead lamb and prolapse are connected - which occurs first?
do dead lambs make the ewe ill?

[Beeducked]

I am worried about her and something like a dead lamb. She looks bright and active  currently but can't see another obvious reason for it. She is 5 years old in a couple of days and didn't lamb with me last time which was two years ago. They all had a year off last year. As far as I am aware she didn't prolapse then. I got them from Gabi and Tiz and they said they all lambed without difficulty.
She certainly isn't fat, if anything she actually feels leaner than I would like. Closer to CS 2 than 3, and I was worrying that they had been over fed! They have pasture (although a bit sparse this time of year), hay ad lib and concentrates but not scanned so on the assumption of singles. Also a lick (Ewemaster Gold) but they preferred the cheap one so never seemed to eat much of this! He abdomen feels pretty full so I do wonder if she has multiples. I couldn't feel any foetal movements tonight but that could just be chance.


She has prolapsed again this evening and again it has gone back in easily. I have a prolapse spoon but as you say, they are such little sheep and the spoon just looks too big.
I think it is going to have to be the vet although my limited experience of 1 ewe that had a suture was that the ewe and lamb died when she ruptured her uterus before the suture was removed. I know 1 bad experience 20 years ago shouldn't make that decision though.  At least the vet will be able to tell if the lamb/s are already dead and what is best for her.

[shygirl]

you are right - it is a stressful time for you 

[SallyintNorth]

The thing with primitives is you can't tell if they're fat from feeling the spine, so if you feed to condition score you can overfeed.  Then they may have fat deposited internally, which of course is the very worst thing you could have in a pregnant ewe.

If she's had a year off, and is being caked and carrying a single, she could have a bit more internal fat than is ideal.  But I don't know how you'd tell without a scanner - or a stethoscope and the knowledge to identify the number of heartbeats!

[SallyintNorth]

can you explain why the lamb would be dead? if dead lamb and prolapse are connected - which occurs first?
do dead lambs make the ewe ill?

Dead lambs don't try to be born the way live lambs do, so if the ewe wants the dead lamb expelled, either because it's time or because she knows it's dead/diseased and wants it out of there, then she can be pushing and straining but not being able to get the lamb effectively engaged in the birth canal.  That's the way I understand it anyway.

Sometimes dead lambs make them ill, yes - sometimes the illness kills the lambs.  Dead lambs that they can't expel will make them ill.

[shygirl]

thankyou sally 

[Beeducked]

Prolapse is in this morning and she is eating and drinking happily and no signs of labour yet.
Keeping my fingers crossed.

[jaykay]

Vaginal prolapses are not that uncommon, particularly small ones that go back in readily. We tend to look after our primitives a bit better than nature would, so they're often in 'quite good condition' 

If all seems well otherwise, I'd assume it is, and not be worrying about dead lambs    For the successful arrival of two healthy lambs soon.

[Beeducked]

Well she had a small prolapse evident while lying down this afternoon (much smaller than the initial one, don't think I would have noticed if I wasn't looking) and it reduced spontaneously when she stood so I'm keeping a close eye but  . She still looks very well in herself and no signs of labour yet.

[Beeducked]

Sorry another long post.


Over the last couple of days my ewe has continued to have a prolapse occasionally when she laid down but it spontaneously reduced when she stood. Today She went into labour and needed a little help to deliver a very large, posterior presentation still born ewe lamb.
About 45 minutes later she prodded another water bag but didn't seem to make any further progress and didn't seem to be staining just wandering about, having a bite to eat etc. I examined her and she had a normal presentation lamb which as I examined her she started to push and with a gentle pull delivered a live ewe lamb I have to say doesn't seem small either!


She is a very attentive mother and seems careful and devoted round the lamb. The lamb is up  and about but not got down to suckling yet - over 2 hours old now


Worryingly the ewe doesn't seem to have any milk. Her udder seems pretty empty and small and doesn't seem to have bagged up and I can't get any milk from her. I have given the lamb some colostrum via a gastric tube but was really hoping not to bottle feed if not necessary.


Can it sometimes take a while for the milk to come in or should I just accept I need to bottle feed?

[Beeducked]

End of (this) panic, her milk's come in.

[SallyintNorth]

All's well that ends well 

Great that you have a well mother and a live lamb - and milk!