Author Topic: I've missed all the knowledge on here - more advice needed please  (Read 7750 times)

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
As you may have already seen our broadband has been out for a month and boy did i need to ask some questions.
One of my pregnant ewes prolapsed a month ago but wasn't due to lamb until next week. Rushed her to the vet who had a hell of a problem pushing it back in again and then stitched her up. He told us we would need to watch her closely so that we could cut the stitch when the water bag showed and assist the lambing because she would undoutably have ring womb. She also needed to be kept on flat land until the time came. Not that easy when you have hilly land. Anyway, we brought her and a mate into the stable yard and gave them the run of it with the stable.
Another ewe was due this week so she came into the yard a few days back and has twins 2 nights ago, a ram and a ewe. The ewe lamb didn't look too good. She was born an hour after the ram and was very small and weak.  We gave her some kick start and was holding her against mums teat but it didn't look too good. Anyway, she has survived and doing well.
Last night the prolapse ewe went into labour. OH cut the stitch and she lambed all by herself a few minutes later. A lovely ram lamb. After that she seemed to be having contractions which we thought was the after birth but she gave birth to a dead lamb about 3 hours later. We know now that we should have checked earlier but it really looked like she was expelling a bag of liquid. We tried to revive the lamb but as it had taken such a long time to arrive it had probably been dead for a while. We gave mum some pen & strep and will give her another dose before bed tonight.
We have another 3 ewes to lamb and I will post some pics when I get the chance.
As this is a U year for Ryelands the twins are Uri and Una and the single ram is Unwin.
The ewe had a hard time of it on Fri night and it was a bit bloody and we have given her 2 doses of pen and strep. She went out in the field with her lamb yesterday. This morning I noticed the lamb had some blood on his head. Not exactly fresh runny blood, more thick mucusy stuff. Checked the ewe and it has come from her. I will give the ewe another dose of P&S shortly. Should I be worried?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 08:59:21 am by Bionic »
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

Mammyshaz

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Durham
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 06:57:05 pm »
 :hugsheep: a bit of a rough start for you, sorry you lost one. Sounds like a good few healthy ones to make up for it  :thumbsup:
Desperate for piccies, did you use a rylands ram?

Edited to say should have read your post correctly, guess the ram is ryland as you are registering them  ;D
Trying to wait patiently for piccies of rylands lambs  :excited:
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 06:59:57 pm by Mammyshaz »

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 08:19:36 pm »
Mammyshaz, they aren't all pedigree. I did the unthinkable and mated a coloured ram with my Ryelands as well as the coloured Ryelands. The problem is that I don't have enough land to keep 2 separate flocks. The twins out of my white girl can't be registered and will only be going for meat. They are so cute though.


I am hoping the ram, out of my coloured ewe will make the grade though as there are good pedigrees on both sides.


I still have 3 more to lamb. 2 coloureds and 1 white.  :fc:  It all goes smoothly.
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

Mammyshaz

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Durham
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 08:46:10 pm »
Ahhhh, I see now  :D so you have bred for the best of both worlds, to breed good stock and for meat  :yum:

Good luck with your other 3 ladies  :excited:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2014, 07:43:16 am »
Glad you've got some healthy lambs  :thumbsup:, sorry to hear about the dead one.  We all get them  :hug: - just concentrate on the live ones ;)

I'm intrigued by the vet's comments wrt the prolapsing ewe.  I've never heard a vet suggest that a ewe who prolapses will have ring womb, so I am wondering what was different about this ewe?  And it sounds as though she didn't have ring womb anyway, thank goodness.   :relief: 

Sorry to bring it up, but did the vet advise you whether you should keep the ewe on or cull her once she's reared her lamb?

I'm also interested to hear, especially as the vet was having trouble replacing the prolapse, whether s/he used anything to reduce the swelling before attempting reinsertion?  We use caster or granulated sugar - rub it all over the mass (once you've cleaned it up) and give it a few minutes; it'll reduce something the size of a football to something the size of a grapefruit.  Magic!  (And much easier to reinsert ;) )

I've read but not validated that the sugar may help to reduce the risk of infection, and that some farmers used to smear honey all over the everted tissue before reinsertion to do just that.  We still give antibiotics anyway, seems only sensible.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2014, 10:43:20 am »
You are thinking of a uterine prolapse post-lambing/calving which is very different to a vaginal prolapse described here Sally. Ewes with vaginal prolapse will frequently need opening up to avoid prolonged labour as the lamb may not engage with the cervix in the normal way (as its a good few inches away from where it is meant to be) and therefore she doesn't open up.

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2014, 11:05:08 am »
Glad you've got some healthy lambs  :thumbsup: , sorry to hear about the dead one.  We all get them  :hug: - just concentrate on the live ones ;)

I'm intrigued by the vet's comments wrt the prolapsing ewe.  I've never heard a vet suggest that a ewe who prolapses will have ring womb, so I am wondering what was different about this ewe?  And it sounds as though she didn't have ring womb anyway, thank goodness.   :relief: 

Sorry to bring it up, but did the vet advise you whether you should keep the ewe on or cull her once she's reared her lamb?

I'm also interested to hear, especially as the vet was having trouble replacing the prolapse, whether s/he used anything to reduce the swelling before attempting reinsertion?  We use caster or granulated sugar - rub it all over the mass (once you've cleaned it up) and give it a few minutes; it'll reduce something the size of a football to something the size of a grapefruit.  Magic!  (And much easier to reinsert ;) )

I've read but not validated that the sugar may help to reduce the risk of infection, and that some farmers used to smear honey all over the everted tissue before reinsertion to do just that.  We still give antibiotics anyway, seems only sensible.
This ewe had a prolapse last year just before she lambed, it would have been her first pregnancy. She was stitched and we didn't feel confident enough to deal with it so when she went into labour a couple of days later she went back to the vet who pulled out a dead lamb. It had blue eyes and had been dead a few days inside her. We were not going to try to lamb from her again but have heard conflicting stories so decided to give her another try and obviously wish now in some way that we hadn't but she has had a lovely lamb. They have just gone out to grass this morning and mum and baby both seem very happy.
The vet didn't try anything to reduce the size of the prolapse. He just washed it well and used lots of gel, after giving her an epidural. I did say that I wouldn't try to lamb from her again and he nodded wisely. I would never cull her though. She is a pet and I love her to bits.
Actually I won't be lambing from any of them again. I have decided its too stressful. I don't just have sleepless nights when we are lambing but for weeks beforehand worrying if anything will go wrong. Of course once you have the lambs and you see them happy with mum out at grass it all seems worth it though.
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2014, 12:52:19 pm »
The prolapse you are talking about is the cervix and vaginal wall, you are unlikely to reduce the size of it, even with a whole box of chocolate eclairs and a can of red bull. And yes if they do it once they will do it again, I have lost track of the number of times people have told me they have proved me wrong only to admit that the sheep did later prolapse

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2014, 01:16:41 pm »
If you used a Coloured Ryeland tup on Ryeland ewes, you can still register the offspring in the Supplementary Register if they are good enough. I used a Ryeland (white) on my coloured ewes for two seasons (he is a wonderful tup and now belongs to a friend of mine) and I registered the female offspring (some white, some coloured) and they are lambing to a Coloured Ryeland tup last year and this.

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2014, 03:52:57 pm »
Thanks for that info Rosemary. I did register one as a supplementary last year but that was after I mated a white with a white but got a coloured ram. I didn't realise I could also register a supplimentary if I had deliberately mated a Ryeland with a Coloured Ryeland.
I have another white still to lamb so I will be watching their offspring with interest.
Mind you, whatever they are they are still gorgeous  :sheep: :love:
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2014, 07:30:05 pm »
You are thinking of a uterine prolapse post-lambing/calving which is very different to a vaginal prolapse described here Sally. Ewes with vaginal prolapse will frequently need opening up to avoid prolonged labour as the lamb may not engage with the cervix in the normal way (as its a good few inches away from where it is meant to be) and therefore she doesn't open up.

Errr... no, I'm not.  We get a few (one to five or more in a bad year) pre-lambing vaginal prolapses every year; we clean and shrink the mass with sugar and reinsert, retaining with a prolapse spoon.  If the spoon won't hold it we get the vet to put in a circular suture with a tie we can undo when she lambs.

I've never ever had one of these ewes not go on to lamb perfectly successfully on her own, generally still outdoors.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2014, 07:51:46 pm »
Sorry about your ewe, Sally.  :hug:

We had a ewe last year with what looked like a slight prolapse pre-lambing. Something came out just a couple of inches or so when she lay down but popped back in when she stood up. Local shepherdess told me to keep an eye on her but not worry too much. She lambed fine .... decent sized twins ... and the prolapse went. Keeper of large Soay flock said that she often noticed this with ewes carrying good twins. Would that be a vaginal prolapse as opposed to a uterine prolapse .... I thought they were the same  :dunce:.? Are ewes with small vaginal prolapses more likely to have a uterine prolapse when they actually lamb?

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
    • Facebook
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2014, 08:19:57 pm »
 :wave: Sally

Lambing had its ups and downs here too!  A lamb in the living room with me now!!!  Generally though been good... apart from the lack of sleep .... you aren't really going to stop are you?
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

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Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2014, 08:51:35 pm »
In the hills it would be a slight vaginal prolapse, the ewe pushes the wall of the vagina out, it is effectively stopped from going any further by the closed cervix, in the "mass" you may have cervix, vaginal walls, possibly bladder and even part of the pregnancy. Spoons while practical and convenient (as it is possible to pass a lamb past them) obviously cause a degree of trauma to the cervix and vagina they push against so I always stitch them in.
Uterine prolapses are after lambing only, the uterus turns itself inside out and hangs out through the vulva, as it is inside out blood supply is constricted and as arterial flow in is stronger than venous return it tends to swell, hence some attempt to reduce the size of the organ with sugar before replacement.

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: I've missed all the knowledge on here
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2014, 08:58:29 pm »
as we are talking prolapses. - I saw a cow at the mart once and every time she mooed - a pink balloon type thing would come out of her vulva. what sort of prolapse would that be??

 

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