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Author Topic: The question of castration. Who does what?  (Read 12579 times)

chonty

  • Joined Sep 2013
  • Herefordshire
The question of castration. Who does what?
« on: March 21, 2014, 02:57:11 pm »
Ive been castrating/ docking using an elastrator for years with commercials (family farm). However I now have a tiny (5ewes) flock of whitefaced woodland of my very own. And having done research it seems as long as the tup lambs are off mom by 4 months they grow quicker and are away quicker. I also do not want to castrate unnecessarily as there is a lot of info about the pain experienced, and im pretty sure advice from defra is to only castrate/ dock if essential. I know it could be argued that it is essential fir welfare issues. The newzealanders seem to manage. Could we?

Oh and tails are left long in woodies so that decisions easy.

Just looking for a discussion really on peoples thoughts. I am 90% sure I am not going to. I might aswell make a mistake with a tiny flock right? ;)

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 03:01:20 pm »
One of our local farmers does not castrate his meat lambs as he says they are ready to go to the butcher faster and he gets a better price. he finished lambing 2wks ago and expects his to be all sold by end of June/July.

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 03:06:28 pm »
We don't, but then we don't get many go store so its not a big issue

Hillview Farm

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Surrey
  • Proud owner of sheep and Llamas!
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 03:10:28 pm »
I will watch this post fir others answers.

I am debating what to do with my meat lambs, I always do tails. I hate doing balls as it clearly hurts and last year I missed one and he went early. The thing that puts me off is if we have another disease out break like foot and mouth I'm then stuck with ram lambs which would have to be split from ewes and ewe lambs. Chances of this?? Who knows??

mowhaugh

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Scottish Borders
    • Facebook
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2014, 03:16:35 pm »
We castrate everything apart from those that look like they might make a tup we'd want to sell/use with elastrators once they are up/sucking etc. happily - usually this is the day after birth.  This works for us as most of our lambs go as stores, only a small % go fat.

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2014, 03:33:44 pm »
We have Coloured Ryelands; we lamb 30th March to about 16th April. We don't castrate the tup lambs. They go for slaughter mid October.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2014, 03:56:21 pm »
I have gone back to castrating, it means they can wean naturally, any that don't make the grade for selling as fats can stay with the main flock for as long I need it. (I prefer to have one big flock overwinter in my big field, makes feeding etc easier in snow etc.)

Only breeding Shetlands and Gotland ewes to Shetland tup this year, so all will stay until after 1st shear then go and I will try and get the skins done. Castrates also have better fleeces, if that's important to you.

Really depends on what the lambs are for and if  only for meat and commercial breeds, then it makes sense to leave intact and get away as fast as possible. But it would be wise to have a separate field available for them in case disaster strikes...

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2014, 04:49:06 pm »
Nice sheep  :thumbsup:

At what age do woodies finish for slaughter?  Do you have a separate paddock you could keep entire males in?

When we first started we were told that wethers finished quicker and better than entire males, but we have found the opposite is true, and in spite of Hebs going off at 16 months, we have never had meat tainted by ramminess.  We run a mainly breeding flock ie selling for breeding, so we leave nearly all the Heb tup lambs entire.  When we had Jacobs we castrated all the males, as they were destined for meat for our own freezer - this was because we didn't know enough at that time to compete with the top breeders.  For the same reason, plus a little bit that I like fleece wethers  :spin:, now we also have all Shetland male lambs as castrates.  With the Soays, we would pick out one likely lad to keep as a possible tup for sale, but the rest were castrated ( if we could get the ring on the tiny creatures' bits).
Because you are keeping a rare breed, and because you clearly already know about sheep, it would be well worth keeping them intact until they are finished, which allows you to pick out any possible potential breeders before the rest go for eating.  To maintain genetic diversity in any breed or species with small numbers, it makes sense to have breeding tups in the national flock from as wide a genetic base as possible, so producing an occasional tup from your flock is good practice.  When you keep a rare breed you have a degree of obligation to think about the breed as a whole, as well as your individual flock.

I particularly hate finding dropped off tails and mini purses lying around, as we did when we kept Jacobs.  Now all our breeds are Northern Short tails so don't get docked.  We keep a careful eye out in flystrike season, and we also use Crovect, which has been successful in keeping the maggots at bay.

If you have a separate paddock where you could put the entire males once they're weaned at 4 months, you would have no rush to send them off before they are finished, and somewhere to keep any you are keeping back in case they turn out to be potential flock sires.

So I would say "go for it, and leave your tup lambs ringless" - if it's not a success this year, then change your plan next year.

Some photos would be great - we like photos on TAS  ;D




Ive been castrating/ docking using an elastrator for years with commercials (family farm). However I now have a tiny (5ewes) flock of whitefaced woodland of my very own. And having done research it seems as long as the tup lambs are off mom by 4 months they grow quicker and are away quicker. I also do not want to castrate unnecessarily as there is a lot of info about the pain experienced, and im pretty sure advice from defra is to only castrate/ dock if essential. I know it could be argued that it is essential fir welfare issues. The newzealanders seem to manage. Could we?

Oh and tails are left long in woodies so that decisions easy.

Just looking for a discussion really on peoples thoughts. I am 90% sure I am not going to. I might aswell make a mistake with a tiny flock right? ;)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 04:51:51 pm by Fleecewife »
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chonty

  • Joined Sep 2013
  • Herefordshire
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2014, 05:44:34 pm »
Some really interesting stuff there. So I think woodies, being one of the larger hill breeds are pretty similar ti the commercials with regards growth   So i would hope i could finish them before  the autumn hormone changes  occur. Would need more concentrate to finish though which might take away from the quality of meat. My intention having so few is to kill the rams for my freezer.

Potential tups? Would i really be able to offer something of breeding standard already? Who knows. Was chatting to my aunt though who would be interested in keeping one as a teaser to share. So potentially thats one down.

I have a tup of my own actually (i know possibly not the wisest decision considering the amount of ewes but quite frankly he is my absolute favourite, and yes i know never make a tup friendly. Do as i say not as i do. I will reap what i have sown!) so I already have a male/ female divide so have got somewhere to put them.

Hmmmm f&m outbreak (touches wood). That is a good thought but I just cant plan for something that may never happen.

Im off out to feed so ill try for some pics.

Thanks all, i always enjoy hearing other peoples opinions

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2014, 06:00:42 pm »
there was a discussion a while ago about castration. I think it was said Germany doesn't routine castrate but are much more set up for separating males and females.

Tim W

  • Joined Aug 2013
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2014, 06:18:26 pm »
Entire rams grow quicker than castrates

But ---if you have a slower growing breed they may become a problem later in the season unless you can keep rams and girls well apart

I keep 500+ entire ram lambs and finish them all off grass every year, some going at almost a year old with no problems but I am set up to deal with this

If in doubt castrate ---it will make for easier management

Dogwalker

  • Joined Nov 2011
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2014, 08:43:18 pm »
I have a welsh mountain tup/wether/teaser(not sure what he'd be called)  I was given as a bottle lamb last May.
He was about 2 weeks when I got him, when I mentioned to the farmer that the ringed sac seemed empty He told me that he's 'crimped',  like they do in NZ, they finish quicker with less fat.  This farmer does all his that way.  It proved useful knowing when the ewes were coming in season.



farmvet

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2014, 09:42:04 pm »
Its very simple to castrate the lambs when they're older if they're not finishing quick enough and your worried about them serving ewes.  That way you keep your options open.  If you've never done it your vet would be able to do & teach you for another year.  There's now a lot of evidence that ringing causes pain for about 6 weeks until the purse has come away & the wound healed.  Open castration with a knife causes shortlived pain while the procedure is carried out & the wound takes about 7-10days to heal.  The UK have looked at banning ringing on welfare grounds on several occasions to bring us in line with parts of Europe.

chonty

  • Joined Sep 2013
  • Herefordshire
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2014, 10:13:38 pm »
Farmvet that is very interesting. Its all the literature ive been reading which had made me question my practice. But open castration? Sounds a bit scary. And i'm used to seeing 'gore' in my job!  But it is certainly something to keep in mind. Thankyou.

Tim W

  • Joined Aug 2013
Re: The question of castration. Who does what?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2014, 10:38:11 pm »
open castration may be less painful but it also leaves the wound open to infection ---especially in the summer or in a mild autumn when flies can be a problem
Another thing to weigh up---

 

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