[P6te]

Thanks Karen and Shygirl .... been thinking whilst reading your posts.  What about one of the LARGE heavy duty supermarket carrier bags - with straw in? .... I could pop one in held by its hind legs and then it could be quickly carried away??  I'm thinking of having a box (with lid) and carrier bag to hand and depending on where the piglet is in relation to Lucky, the ark and my escape route I'll decide then ..... ?

[P6te]

Because ours were so young they were always still in the farrowing pens in the shed, so they were always dry and in clean surroundings  Most of ours were completely healed after 2-3 days though - maybe a fender on the front of the arc just to keep them in? I'm not sure whether they'll need to be kept mud free - our summer Kunekunes go straight back into the fields - but they get a closed castration............. Sorry I can't be of more help 

At the moment the majority of the run is dry mud, its only the entrance that is bad and they don't tend to go that way. Initially I scattered a couple of bales of hay around the ark to keep them clean so may extend that again.  I don't think keeping them in is an option, they are ACTIVE and it would take a lot to do that!!

[shygirl]

plan the escape route first, avoiding the dubs as that'l slow you down 
keep everyone hungry, that always helps.

[Shropshirelass]

Firstly food & do you have a area you could just lead the piglets into & separate them there? Also I thought after a certain number of days pigs have to be castrated under a GA - like with cats & dogs which would mean taking them to the vets? I've seen it done on the farm & in a vets & personally don't like it as they seem to get so stressed as opposed to other animals & the squealing is almost unbearable. I can understand why it's done though but I just wouldn't keep mixed gender groups together.

Also they need a lot of good handling & holding down - when seeing 1 being done under a GA it took about 4 people to hold it still to gas it down before the op (Granted that was a 8-12 week old pig.)  Pig castrations also similar to dog castration where the testicles & scrotum are quite vascular as opposed to some animals - which means post-op their more likely to bleed & possibly swell or the scrotum's fill with blood - so keep a eye on that. Sorry not trying to scare you off the idea & good luck x

[Berkshire Boy]

I really think you are making this more complicated than needs be. Grab piglet get out quick. You start trying to get it in a box or bag it will get stressed and make even more noise. Mine shut up once you have them cradled in your arms like a baby.

[P6te]

Thank you all .... I'll give BB's suggestion a go.  Certainly is easiest if all goes smoothly. 

[Berkshire Boy]

Don't blame me if she has your leg off. 

[HappyHippy]

Pete - I know she's a lovely sow but TAKE A BOARD AND STICK IN WITH YOU - you're better to have it and not need it than the other way round 

Also I thought after a certain number of days pigs have to be castrated under a GA - like with cats & dogs which would mean taking them to the vets? I've seen it done on the farm & in a vets & personally don't like it as they seem to get so stressed as opposed to other animals & the squealing is almost unbearable. I can understand why it's done though but I just wouldn't keep mixed gender groups together.

After day 5 (I think, it might be day 7) castration has to be carried out by a vet - doesn't stipulate in the welfare regs that they need anesthetic though.
I have to pick up on your point about the squealing though - ours didn't squeal when the castration was being done (on farm, by my OH at 3 days old). When they were picked up - yes, they squealed like, well......pigs  but not a peep from them during the actual procedure - I couldn't have held them or put them through it if that were the case. Maybe older pigs, in unfamiliar surroundings would get a bit more stressed and make a bit more noise though.
As for not keeping mixed sex groups together - that's fine if you have plenty of pigs to keep them company and plenty of space (and very good fencing) to keep them well away from their sisters/mother, but certainly for me it was a choice I made so they could run in family groups without worry of accidental pregnancy before gilts were ready or that if I sold 2 out of 3 boar weaners, one would be on it's own. Everyone has their own way that works for them

[Marches Farmer]

Do you have anywhere you could put the piglets before the vet arrives?

[Tamsaddle]

When we had exactly the same problem with a very anxious sow who'd be at the scene at the very first inkling of a squeak, I managed to extricate the piglets using a lightweight plastic crate, with lots of straw, on its side, and then pushed the piglet in sideways using a handful of straw, ie no hand contact with any part of its body.   Sometimes you could get two together this way.   As soon as it was in I could usually get out of the plot without a single noise, and hence avoided being angrily chased by mum.    It worked about 75% of the time, however there would always be one or two piglets that would squeak their heads off almost as soon as you looked at them.     And it may be that at 20 days old they will be too big to do this;  we had ours castrated at 4 and 5 days old.   So I agree with the others, have a board and stick in there, and a fast escape route if it looks like you are going to be attacked.    Good luck.   

[P6te]

Do you have anywhere you could put the piglets before the vet arrives?

That is precisely what I am planning on doing but I still have the issue of extracting them! 

Tamsaddle - thank you for the advise.

On a future occasion I'd look to get them done at an earlier age but a combination of events on this occasion made it difficult. (Lucky farrowed slightly earlier than expected, I started a new job and had to be away 2 days and Lucky had mastitis which was our initial priority)

If I get the chance I'll photograph the run later and you'll see that its not the easiest to get into and out of swiftly!

[fsmnutter]

Being a vet, it is much easier for me to fit within the regulations!
However, as at a younger age, they require less pinning down, anaesthetic etc, I have done my last 3 litters myself at home, between 3-7 days old.
I have had 3 of them develop hernias however, as the way pig testicles descend leaves things with a chance of leaking from inside the abdomen at the groin area. One survived, with surgery to replace the intestines (again as a vet, I could get him into surgery and fix him up very quickly!), but two unfortunately died (one while under anaesthetic to replace the intestines).
Just keep a really close eye on them post castration, if they are off colour, or any swelling in the groin area, or anything poking out from the castrate wounds, take them straight in to the vet surgery.
With older pigs, the vet may do things slightly differently, so reducing the risk of hernia further, but I cannot tell you exactly what technique someone else would be using.
When I did it, my OH fed the sows in one corner, I took a board in to block the door, picked the young piglets up out of the house, placed them in one of these fantastic new floppy buckets, the kind you can scoop both handles together. As your piglets are likely to be much bigger, and out and about, it is likely to be worth having some food to distract the sow, and someone to help fend her off, if your arms are full of piglet!, but picking them up and holding them in your arms (right way up, they get annoyed being upside down!) is probably the easiest way.
Then you can stick them, one by one, into the area you have to put them
Good luck!

[Tamsaddle]

The other important thing to do, if you are going to use any sort of container to scoop them up, is to completely cover the whole piglet in straw for the few seconds you are getting out of the plot with them.   I have always found they stay silent for longer if they cannot see where they are being taken and there is no airflow over their heads and bodies.    They seem to get temporarily distracted by the process of finding their way out of the straw.   If you are feeling very brave, you could have a trial/practice go getting piglets out without Lucky going beserk, a few days before you have to do it with the vet at your place, ready and waiting.


Of the total of 10 piglets we ever had castrated, we lost just one to a hernia - on that particular piglet the person doing it had used the American method of twisting and pulling hard, rather than the UK method of cutting, with which we never had a problem.   It was ghastly, poor little thing, all its guts fell out of the hole, and as it was late on a Saturday night we decided to put it to sleep at once.   I am sure that terrible yanking method they seem to use in the States must cause a lot of unnecessary bleeding inside.   All of them, even the one who died, hardly made a sound while it was being done, and recovered very quickly indeed - nor did their mum notice their purple bums!

[fsmnutter]

In cattle, we regularly twist and pull the cord when castrating bull calves.
The reason the twisting and pulling is done, is that when the blood vessels are torn by stretching, the blood vessels will usually become narrowed, and close down, limiting the bleeding.
This is a similar phenomenon to when a placenta comes away from a baby, with the umbilical cord pulling and stretching, hopefully closing off the vessels and preventing both bleeding and infection.
In the UK, it is illegal to castrate piglets by tearing tissues, so we have got to cut the cords.
I don't think there is a huge difference in risk of hernia between the two methods, as clearly we have both seen hernias with either method.

[Berkshire Boy]

Well I must have very laid back pigs. 
My eight sows farrow twice a year I can walk in the pen and pick up a piglet from the minute they are born to the day they leave their mum and the worst I get is a bit of a chunder, I tell her not to be silly and that is that.
I don't own a pig board have never felt I needed it, certainly don't go in with a stick.
Before I upset anyone this is not a criticism of anyone else or the way they do things this is just the way I do it.
I'm not stupid I always have a way out if needs be but touch wood that has never happened.