[Dreich Pete]

Not sure wich category this should be in so feel free to move it.

As predicted by a couple of our neighbours, since the shooting season has ended and the gamekeepers have stopped putting feed out for the birds we have started seeing signs of rats around the outbuildings. Although I don't think it's more than a couple and they haven't shown any signs of being at the house walls I don't want them getting settled around us. We don't have a cat but the two dogs are doing a great job of keeping us up to date with where the rats are.

I don't want to have to put down traps or resort to shooting them (I'd have to get a gun for starters) as I'm not into killing things, so I was hoping there was a tried & tested method of deterring them. The dogs are certainly doing their bit to make it an inhospitable environment but I can't just keep letting the dogs out through the night.

Any suggestions?

[doganjo]

If you've seen two rats you've seen a hundred!

We had a vermin control officer give us (Central Scotland Smallholders) a talk last month. He said the only way to get rid of them was to use the blue/green poison if you had more than one or two, and the red on if you really thought there weren't many.  Like us, rats don't like being beside dead bodies and the red one kills quick so the others in the colony will just more on - but not necessarily off your property.  Better to use the slow acting poison and kill more of them.

They carry disease and wee constantly so they are presently spreading disease all over your place, animal feedstuffs, equipment etc which you may touch with your bare hands. So his advice was always to wear gloves outside, and keep all feedstuffs well covered.

But if you really don't want to kill them he also said that rats don't like new things so you could try moving everything around every night to try to make them move on .  He also said that dogs and cats only scratch at the surface of the numbers that are actually there, but conceded that they are a deterrent rather than a control option. 

There are sonar deterrents you  can buy - I tried those at my last house and they made no difference to the numbers I saw, nor the number of eggs I lost.  I have always had both dogs and cats, all excellent hunters, and always had rats as I didn't put down poison  in case the cats found a half dead one and ate it.  As it happens this gentleman also put my mind at rest - the amount of 'second hand' rat poison required to kill a cat was so considerable as to not be a worry.

[Dreich Pete]

I've been doing some online reading and had read about them being averse to new objects and changing environments. As far as I can tell, from physical signs and where the dogs are most interested, there is a chance of a nest in a log pile in a garage and they have been feeding at the compost heap that I inherited when we moved here.

I'll keep an eye on the situation but at the moment I just don't have the strength/energy to empty out the shed to move them on. Our Lab is doing a great job of dismantling the other log piles though, unfortunately at the expense of a lot of scratches to his nose.

[Fleecewife]

Even if you only have a couple today, before you know it there will be a colony, as Doganjo says.  I believe the only way really is to kill them.  Our terriers despatch a big rat in an instant with a quick grab and a flick to the neck, which is as humane as it's possible to be I think.  Chasing them on to someone else's property, even if it would work, is not the responsible option.  When our invasion came, when a neighbours giant heap of grain was all gone, leaving thousands of rats to move out to neighbouring properties, we used a mixture of terriers and poison in bait boxes to get rid of them.  Every now and then there will be a teenage rat trying out the place as a new home, but they don't last long.  No-one, well, not many folk, actually enjoy killing things, but rats, which spread disease to humans and animals, really are bad news and have to go.  They are so intelligent and it's a great pity, but they have to die and you have to do it, unless you can get a working terrier owner to come for the day and dig them out.

To give them no reason to move in keep all feed in metal bins, don't leave half full hen feeders and generally keep a tidy farm.  It won't get rid of them once they've arrived but it will reduce the attractiveness of the place to new arrivals.

In some situations you are right that rats don't like change, but clearly they aren't totally averse to new things or they wouldn't spread out.

[Steph Hen]

I kept ferrets in a barn in a house I stayed at a few years ago. I'd let them run around every day, I was never putting them down holes for rats, but sometimes one of my smaller gils would nip down into the drains for ten minutes...she always would come back when I called her out.

My land lady said her rats all moved out. Her pest control man said he couldn't understand where they'd all gone so quickly. Landlady was very happy for me to continue keeping and exercising my ferrets around the yard and sheds and barn.
Might be useful for you? But personally I think rats on farms is an ongoing poison, regime, with bits of shooting and trapping and definitely agree with others that if you've seen a couple you've probably got dozens going about.

[Dreich Pete]

I certainly don't want to displace them onto a neighbour - unless I could shift them all to the estate that so readily encourages them and then forces them to relocate to the local houses and farms. Our dogs aren't really up to the task of catching rats and I don't know anyone with a ratting terrier nearby, so it looks like I'll have to make arrangements for trapping/poisoning them.

[MikeM]

do you have anyone locally who can come over with terriers? Still the best way to deal with an infestation is a really good rat man and his terriers. Sadly I don't think you'll be able to stop them, they have 24 hours a day to find ways round whatever you may think of. I agree with you for not wanting to poison, especially as you have dogs.

[doganjo]

I'm not sure that a shooting estate would want rats either - they will take the young birds if they can get access, and steal the food and urinate over it - so I would think they take action to eradicate them too.    Could you maybe go over there and ask them for suggestions?

[Dreich Pete]

All of my neighbours have said the same thing: within weeks of the shooting season ending, all the local homes/farms start seeing rats. This coincides with the gamekeepers stopping putting feed out for the birds. Rats may well be a small problem for the gamekeeper but they don't do anything to prevent them, and they certainly don't make any effort to eradicate the problem once they've stopped feeding the birds. I may be new to the area, but my neighbours have been here for decades.

[john and helen]

I have had two massive Rats running in the duck run pinching the food…once the ducks where away for the night, i put a bowl of the RED RACO Broma grain down…. you need to make sure there is none around the following morning….i haven't seen them since 

the time before last nearly got me in trouble…yes il'e admit, i did a stupid thing…. i poured a bit lot of petrol down one of there holes…. BANG… i ended up with a slightly bigger hole  but didn't see a rat for a while ..I wouldn't do that again though

[Q]

the time before last nearly got me in trouble…yes il'e admit, i did a stupid thing…. i poured a bit lot of petrol down one of there holes…. BANG… i ended up with a slightly bigger hole  but didn't see a rat for a while ..I wouldn't do that again though

  -that must have been exciting. 
One of the tricks I have heard about is similar which is to put calor gas down the hole and ignite. Apparently it is heavier than air so it pools.   NOT RECOMMENDED if you want to keep all your limbs and fingers.

[Dreich Pete]

I'm still not familiar with the location of various cables and pipes around my land so I think I'll give the explosive option a wide berth, but i do now have images of charred faces and singed eyebrows.

If the rain holds off for a day or two, and I can shake off these aching joints I'll clear out the shed that they are using as a shelter. If the dogs happen to get hold of them, then all the better.

[cloddopper]

the time before last nearly got me in trouble…yes il'e admit, i did a stupid thing…. i poured a bit lot of petrol down one of there holes…. BANG… i ended up with a slightly bigger hole  but didn't see a rat for a while ..I wouldn't do that again though

  -that must have been exciting. 
One of the tricks I have heard about is similar which is to put calor gas down the hole and ignite. Apparently it is heavier than air so it pools.   NOT RECOMMENDED if you want to keep all your limbs and fingers.

 It's even more interesting if a rat hole/holes runs back into your 250 year old house.

 Back in the 1950's my old man found out that was what had happened when he pushed three of four full calcium carbide sticks ( the stuff that used to be used in the old banging crow scarers )   down a big rat hole that led under the covered in yard between the house and wash house and coal house.  He watered it in with the watering can before bunging it up for three hours whilst he , Mum and us kids  were out in the 2 acre plot digging and weeding etc.

 Just before everything was finished and put away in the  he told us to stay back , pulled out the old glass bottle he'd used to plug up the hole and crouched down to ignite the acetylene gas that had formed  . As soon as he'd struck the match and advanced it towards the hole there was a hell of a big bang & an orange flame , he flew apex over basement backwards several times,  his hat flew off his head and landed about 12 feet away  , the front door blew off and several windows blew out with the pressure wave of the explosion that took place inside the house pantry .
The glass in the windows of the pantry lit up in a fantastic orange purplish flash before  coming out  . We were all very lucky it was not worse.

[Dreich Pete]

But what about the rats?

It's amazing how stupid we can be as a species, and how so many of us survive the most horrific incidents. Personally I'm a bit of a motorbike and fall hazard, but mainly because I'm overly cautious when it comes to chemicals, explosives, and electricity.

[doganjo]

Bicarbonate of soda and rolled oats, but keep it away from the hens or you'll see feathers  flying