[mariegold]

Dear generous goat peoples, sorry for another question (hopefully one day I will know something and be able to offer advice back!)

I went to look at the Golden Guernsey today and her two little girls. They look good but the mum was really thin and one of her udders was much much bigger than the other. The owner milked her out from said udder which didn't bother her in the slightest. Does this sound ok? The kids were feeding off her well and seemed very bright and energetic.

My other concern is that the herb is not CAE tested or scrapie monitored. Should I steer clear or is the chance of them being infected minimal enough to take the risk?

The owner is able to deliver them next week and I am really keen to go ahead as my trailer is out of action and I doubt any other goat owners would have time to provide this service.

Yet again any advice very much gratefully received. Thanks,  Marie 

[Anke]

Is she registered with the BGS? If not, then it is also much more likely that she is not CAE tested.

The chances that she is infected with CAE is fairly low. Only very few goatbreeders in the UK are scrapie-monitored (it is an export requirement, but not much else needs it). I would say also only a small % of UK goat herds (non-commercial) are annually CAE tested or are CAE monitored. It is an extra cost that most of us find hard to justify, but it is a requirement for showing your goats.

It is difficult to advise without seeing the goat and speaking too the present owner, but as I do show my goats I do an annual whole-herd test (just got my certificate and now dreading the bill at the beginning of March)

If you do take her (and her female kids???) you would then have to decide if you need that assurance for your herd for the future. If you were planning to show or on using a registered pedigree billy on any of your goats you will have to do an annual CAE test. Most of the pedigree breeders will not allow the mating of non-CAE tested females to our males. It is a simple bloodtest, and as long as you could bring your animals to the vets (rather than have a call-out) to take the samples the cost is not too onerous for a couple of goats. Unless you plan on bringing in outside stock regularly you could probably rely on initial test and then only test the goats that you are planning on breeding that year.

I am a bit more worried that you are saying she is quite thin. However if she is feeding twins she will need quite a bit of concentrate to produce enough milk for them - so if she is alert, bright-eyed (and bushy tailed) she should be fine. Also have a look at her feet (are the horns overgrown to make her look like wearing slippers?) If yes I would be a bit worried about the general care she is receiving at her current place and why the current owner is so keen to let her go, how does the current holding fell when you were there? Goats inquisitive and coming to say hello to you?

The uneven udder may simply be that the kids are feeding both from the same side - you would have to watch this and strip the milk out once a day from the "underused" side.

[fiestyredhead331]

We CAE test the girls who are going to the billy and compared to the price of meds etc from vet for other things, its relatively cheap.
If the kids look fine and mum just needs to get back in condition then I can't see any problems but I don't have a crystal ball either. My 2 guernseys are kidding this spring/summer for the first time but they really are lovely goats to have 

[Lesley Silvester]

I bought my young one from a dairy farm where they weren't CAE tested. I have since had her tested as I wanted to take her to the billy and she was clear. I would definitely have a good look at the set up where she is now. You will probably get an idea whether she is properly looked after from that.

[wytsend]

This is always a difficult decision.          I have tested every year since the testing became available in 1983..........the incidence of CAE infected herds back then was about 8% of the all goats in UK, but because it is  very similar to Maeda Visna in sheep, there was a move to get the disease under control.

CAE has 2 forms....encephylitis which kills kids up to about 12 mths old & the arthritis which is slow onset and often doesn't show until about 5/6yrs old.

Stud owners require a certificate to show a female is negative because it is sexually transmitted as well as maternally transmitted.   Unfortunately is a female is carrying the disease, then by the time it is obvious.....swollen joints, mastitis etc.........she has already had a number of kids who are also positive.

When commercial herds started really appear on the scene, because of the cost nobody tested.............and surprise, surprise the disease is increasing again and now accounts for approximately 15% of the national herd !!!!

I would certainly want this adult goat to be tested before buying.....................if she is clear then her kids are most probably clear.

Having seen a case of CAE................I never want to see it again.

[Anke]

When commercial herds started really appear on the scene, because of the cost nobody tested.............and surprise, surprise the disease is increasing again and now accounts for approximately 15% of the national herd !!!!

Where are these figures published?  I am really keen to get some more info on the incidence of CAE in the UK, just to inform my own herd policy.

[wytsend]

I obtained these figs from SAC 2 or 3 years ago.........given the number of herds in existence now,  with over 3000 animals each  as an average,...............it really isn't rocket science to understand how it will spread further.

I personally know of goatlings purchased from commercial herds that were positive on their first test...........they were destroyed immediately.   Not all herds are bad,  3 in particular do test for CAE....total number of adults in the region of 10,000 !!!   But many more will not spend the money to test.

[goosepimple]

I wouldn't let it put you off buying Mariegold, the whole cae thing is a very moot point.  Phone your vet and see what he/she thinks.  My vet thought cae testing was a waste of time unless it was likely your stock had been near a goat which had come out of africa! but breeders on here claim not, so it's up to you basically. 
Also, the mum is probably just in need of a bit of feeding up, some dried apricots and a little bit of ivy will help, she has 2 mouths there sapping all the goodness, maybe why human mums are told to keep their sugar levels up when breast feeding.
I'd go for it.  Enjoy.

[mariegold]

Thank you so much everyone for your advice! I think I will go for it as she was such a lovely goat and her kids looks very healthy and energetic. You lovely people are so kind to spend the time to answer in such a thoughtful way. Thanks 

[goosepimple]

send pics of the happy day mariegold 

[Lesley Silvester]

    Always good to hear about a soon to be goatkeeper.