[Steph Hen]

After recently having to put to sleep our old retired ponies, we have a rather sad empty field. Previously I've tried to convince my husband how great goats would be to little avail, but he and my in laws have agreed that some goats would be lovely (Or a couple of small cattle, but I prefer the idea of goats). I can't have anything that is due to kid between now and June as I'm pregnant.

 I've got as far as having read Katie Thear's "starting with goats" book, and have a neighbour who kept them for years and has offered to advise. I helped look after some milking goats one summer years ago and really enjoyed them. We have cph number, will have to see about herd numbers and other requirements.

There's a wee mobile (via tractor) field shelter that will need patching up and have a stall in a shed if they need to be inside in bad weather, but would rather if they could live out. We have about three acres of grass and at least twice that in overgrown scrub areas that they might enjoy. The ground is free draining, not had sheep on it for a decade. I have electric tape to reinforce fences, and stakes but will need a new energiser, maybe battery, etc. I'm thinking two or maybe three goats and lots of strip/rotation, grazing.

I don't want just pets, but not milking at the moment (maybe in future?). I don't want tiny kids that need to be bottle fed either. I had thought maybe getting youngish boer x and rearing for spring and  summer for meat, but looking at my book, it's recommending keeping them inside and slaughtering at just 8 to 10 weeks, which isn't what I had in mind. Not into weaving and spinning either. I'd rather goats without horns.

So is it good to get a couple of goatlings and plan to breed them next year? Or in kid nannies but due later in the summer (do they all have spring kids)? Eat the resulting boys and grow a little herd of girls? Any advise as to the best breeds? Being inexperienced I'd rather buy from a local breeder than go to a sale, hence asking if anyone has any for sale locally as this may dictate the choice. What sort of prices are reasonable? Many thanks for reading this long post and for any advice you can offer.

[Anke]

Goats aren't really sold at the markets, so you would be best buying from a breeder. Goats won't do the "living out" thing, especially not in Aberdeenshire. They don't like rain, and mine aren't too keen on the white stuff either. So in winter they are normally inside, and need feeding twice a day minimum, I am milking a couple through the winter.

Any goat's winter accommodation really needs some electricity this far north.

I am not quite sure what you would want to do with your goats, many people find it incredibly difficult to kill and then eat the surplus kids (we do eat ours but between 8 and 12 months of age), as they are very cute for the first six months or so... (but not necessarily after that). Any billy  kids would have to be castrated, much like sheep. Otherwise they will be very "active" after about 3 months and cannot be kept with females in the same field.

Goats are also much cleverer than sheep and will easily out-smart a battery powered electric fence, but are usually ok with a mains set-up.

[goosepimple]

Why not try a couple of pygmy goats - if you breed them you can always sell the boys as they remain super cute throughout life and when your own children grow up they will love them.  Our bottle fed girly kid born last May is like a little dog - she loves us and we love her, she's very responsive.  Everybody wants her when they come to visit and they are completely addictive.  Keep the horns on the pygmies - another TAS member had her kids disbudded last year and said she wouldn't do it again. 


If you want a milker I'd be careful if you are having a baby - you will be horrendously tired and the commitment to milking at regular times will definitely become a real bind.  Pygmies are a good way of finding out about goats generally and you could do the milking thing in a year or two once you find your feet and you could always sell the pygmies on although you'll not want to once you have them  they're great company.


Goats love their house and like to stick around it generally, like different levels in it (we use straw bales) and lots of branches to eat along with hay 24/7 (esp fruit tree branches) and you should have lots of access to those.  They won't graze much so they're not going to strip graze like sheep or ponies.  They don't eat just anything unless they're Anglo Nubian (eat your washing types) and you should watch out for poisonous plants - ragwort or shiny thick leaved plants like laurel or azaleas, even plants nearby that the leaves fall off and blow into their area could be fatal.  But other than that they are pretty low maintenance and fun to have.  Old English goats remain small but bigger than pygmies and will give you milk, but I'd wait until you have your own offspring remembering how tired I was    congrats by the way!

[Rosemary]

What about Boers for meat? Or Bagots - and help a very, very rare breed?

[ballingall]

Pygmies are very cute and entertaining, but they probably won't really keep your grass down. In all honesty, you'd probably need a herd of 20 to keep 3 acres trimmed! We normally have between 10- 14 goats, and their field is just over 1/2 an acre, which does them fine.


You'd also need to be even more careful with fencing for pygmies, they are so small, they can easily escape!


Goats can live out, but dairy ones are often kept in during the winter. They need shelter from rain, and you'd be best with a floor in their shelter so it doesn't get muddy.


There are some breeders roundabout you, Gordon Webster and Gordon Smith have dairy goats near Monikie, Scott Moir has Boers somewhere near Arbroath (he's actually a member on here, but doesn't post very often). Agnes Aitken has dairy and pygmies at Stonehaven.


Remember if you get dairy goats, you don't necessarily need to milk them twice a day, you can leave the kids n them, and just milk off the excess. Some breeds give less than others, like English, Anglo-Nubians etc.


Agree you would be better to get something young- between 6 month and about a year old.


But do bear in mind having your baby will turn your life around....


We are near Falkirk with dairy goats if you are ever are down this way and want a chat.


Beth

[fsmnutter]

Hi there
Certainly sounds like you have thought this through thoroughly, and done plenty research, so well done. Cattle are great, but they are larger than goats, and therefore the risks of hurting you if they get upset at any point are greater, and therefore handling systems have to be available to deal with any potential problems, such as requiring vet visits, restraining them for injections, etc. Goats are quite similar in many ways to cattle, but are perhaps easier to get into.
We are in Aberdeenshire and have Saanens, who are ( ) in kid to a Boer. We are aiming to have the crossbred kids so that the males can go for meat, and the females will still be reasonably milky for a bit of milk for ourselves, but will be a bit hardier than the Saanens. At the moment, our goats go out during the day, with a field shelter, and are in at night. Kinda depends how enclosed your field shelter is, and how easy it would be to muck out/keep clean and dry as to whether they could live out with the field shelter only, but if you have a stall available for rougher weather that doesn't sound too bad. They do graze a bit, but are particularly keen on the rough weedy bits at the edge, and the tree branches we throw in for them, so your grass plus rough ground sounds ideal. The fact you haven't had sheep in a long time is great, as there will be few worms on the pasture, as goats are more susceptible to worms than sheep as they are less designed for grazing. Ours learned the electric fence last year, though the first few times they shocked themselves, they just ran through it. Once they realised it hurt, they kept well clear, though occasional ears touch the bottom wire, and they would jump. It was mains powered, so it is well worth making sure you have something with a good zap!
Meat kids certainly don't have to be raised indoors and sent off early, this is a model that works for some people, similar models are often used in lambing, where people lamb indoors around xmas/New Year, keep the lambs indoors, fed heavily on concentrates and sent to slaughter early to hit the Easter markets and get good prices as supply is low. There is no reason you shouldn't fatten meat goats slowly on grass in a similar fashion to later lambers, and if there is dairy goat in them, this is likely to be the method of choice as they will grow slower.
If you wanted to come and visit, to see our goats, and how we do things, or ask any questions, just drop me a message, we're in Banff, so about a couple of hours from you.
If you were interested, we may consider selling one of our nanny goats (we have two two year old, first kidders, or a more experienced goat, who has kidded and milked previously) with kid(s) at foot, after they have kidded around April time, which would give you a nice little starter herd, and the kids would take a lot of her milk so you could milk off a little as you required without having quite the demands on your time that a milker who has no kids would have. Price would depend on how many kids she went with, and whether they were male or female. The females can be registered with the British Boer Goat Society as up to 50% Boer genes, so this can also affect price. If you take a look at the British Boer Goat Society, there are usually a range of goats available for sale, so you can get an idea of prices etc.

[Steph Hen]

Thank you all very much for your replies. I've been reading through them and thinking.

I understand the thought behind pygmies, but I don't want pets as although i do really like tiny goats, I think it'll make it even harder to eat future offspring from the goaty enterprise if we start with some that are pets. I have eaten a tame goat that I spent a summer looking after and milking and helped tan her hide too... I was sad when they were sent away, but it's part of the lifestyle I want for me and my family, so will try.
Plus there's the point about grass control, and little goats doing even less management. I read that boers graze more than other breeds, though I can't find where I read that now..? Even better if they are also hardier than their dairy counterparts. I'd rather stay away from anything rare or expensive till we know what we're doing. My husband and inlaws are around to assist with care. I walk my dog down to the pond and paddocks every day at the moment and think I'd go mad if I didn't get fresh air every day when baby is here.

I like the idea of having two or three now, (or nanny and kids) and growing them into a little herd in the next few years, with a view to putting the odd one in the freezer and maybe one day milking, but not milking any time in the next few years. The ground is already fenced into 5 or 6 little paddocks of around 1/3 to 1acre which I hoped would work for rotating, rather than relying on only electric to strip graze a couple meters a day. Although, only one has good fencing (right in the middle). The rest will definitely need patching up and/or extra electric strands to make it taller. Won't be able to get mains power down there, I'll have a chat with my husband about how strong a zap we can create. The one with good fencing is about half an acre with lots of herbs in the sward and whins, bits of willow and gorse as well. I figured they could go in here initially, settle in, learn a bucket means food and what electric fence is. If when they escape they'll still be inside the other paddocks and still a good way from roads. The shelter is tin, needs patching, but would be about 2x2 m and enclosed on three sides. I have straw bales and potato boxes that they could climb on. If they're going to choose to be inside it a lot, I don't think it's good enough. I'll have a think about what else is around and could be adapted or built there. I think leading them up and down the track every morning and night from shed to field might be a bit much. There is electric in the shed here at the house for if the weather is very bad and they had to be inside, they could have the light on!

Given the amount of grass and overgrown scrub, I realise we could probably do fine with cattle and goats, but that's maybe too much for just now. My husband had cattle up until ten years ago and might even have some handling equipment around? He's pretty keen on a couple of dexters.

Would a nanny with kids be happy or would she prefer some 'adult company' as well? Is that the stupidest question? I guess at least one female kid to keep for the following year. Thank you fsmnutter and ballingall for your kind offers to ask more questions, visit and even sell one to us. I'll get back to you after some discussions with the family! Although the boers are coming out favourites at the moment, will maybe try to contact Scott Moir.

[tattycat]

Hiya Steph Hen. There's been some really good advice on here nd I hope its helping you decide. I thought I'd put my oar in as well!!
I'd advise against pygmy's (sorry pygmy owners), they are lovely goats but similar in difference between a labrador and Jack russel. All goats have at least 23 hrs a day to work out how to escape from whatever you put them in!!
If you don't want the hassle of milking for a few years, why don't you get a couple of goatlings later in the year after you've kidded!! Then you dont have to worry about milking for at least 1 year, nd they'll keep each other company, nd you'll have time to build a good trusting relationship with them. There's nothing worse than trying to deal with a mistreated/untrusting goat!!
As for breed nd winter housing, my Sanaen's love winter snow, they get very giddy!! However the Nubian is disgusted!!
The Toggenburg cross is happy with everthing all of the time!! Quite disheartening if your having a bad day! lol As for Boar's,  I don't know.....

[sokel]

We have Boer of various Percentages from 50% up to Pure also Dairys (5 British Toggs , 1 Saanen 1 Anglo Nubian and 3 Togg x Anglos )
Our Boers are defiantly a lot hardier than the dairys, they will venture out even if its raining or snowing where as the dairys wont come out if its wet.
Our Boers are very friendly as we are fully hands on with them where as some breeders keep them more like sheep and only handle when they have too.
One of our 50% Boers is a good milker, she kidded last year and she is still giving us 6 pints a day  but we are feeding her like the dairys .

[Lesley Silvester]

Wow, Sokel, six pints a day from a 50% Boer? My 50% Boer Sanaan is in kid and I've been wondering what sort of yield to expect. Her mother is Sanaan from a dairy herd so, I image, is a good producer. I'm very encouraged.

[sokel]

Wow, Sokel, six pints a day from a 50% Boer? My 50% Boer Sanaan is in kid and I've been wondering what sort of yield to expect. Her mother is Sanaan from a dairy herd so, I image, is a good producer. I'm very encouraged.

She is a 1 off and her mother is from a great milking herd ,Her Udder is def more like a dairys than a Boers  we do also have another 50% that dried up within a few weeks of her kids being weaned 

[Penninehillbilly]

I'd go for boers as well, they have a much thicker coat than the dairy's, and my male boer spent most of the winter outside with 2 togg whethers in a field with a field shelter (hay rack and water inside), I did close them in when it was bad weather, but they chose to be out most of the time, fed concentrates inside in the evening. (The wethers made excellent joints    ). Maybe a couple of crossbreds and a dairy type would cover everything?
 

[Lesley Silvester]

Wow, Sokel, six pints a day from a 50% Boer? My 50% Boer Sanaan is in kid and I've been wondering what sort of yield to expect. Her mother is Sanaan from a dairy herd so, I image, is a good producer. I'm very encouraged.

She is a 1 off and her mother is from a great milking herd ,Her Udder is def more like a dairys than a Boers  we do also have another 50% that dried up within a few weeks of her kids being weaned 

Knowing my luck, Cloud will be more like the second one although, as I said, her mother is from a dairy herd.

[goosepimple]

.....no offense from the pygmy owners - they're for life not for a meal for 2 from M&S really    I just meant they're a soft option for experiencing goaties if you're not sure about keeping some - you can always sell them on if need be.

[fiestyredhead331]

I would go for a pair if you can get them, I got 2 lovely Guernseys last year who are company for each other but also perhaps ready for kidding next spring?  Give yourself time to get used to them etc before having to think about kidding and milking etc, ease yourself in gently and enjoy, they are so much fun to have, I started with 1 and I am now up to 11