[Bodger]

We all dislike the way the government treats us.

[Rosemary]

I think making judgements about people based on their race, religion etc etc is wrong but we're all human and most of us probably think bad things from time to time. Thankfully, we can't, as yet, be banged up for thinking things 

A lot of the anti-English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours (in the broadest sense) - we need to get past it. Hopefully a Yes vote in September will give us the confidence to go forward on an equal footing with the nation that should be our closest ally, friend and partner.

But we're already your closest ally,friend and partner.
Saying that " the anti English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours " is about as good an excuse for racism as the lawyer who tries to excuse 'thieving Jonnys' hooligan ways on a deprived childhood.
There's nothing wrong with being pro Scottish or pro Welsh, but there just isn't any reason why being nationalistic has to come hand in hand with being anti English.

I'm not making excuses, Bodger, I'm giving an opinion on what may have lead to this type of attitude. I don't condone it.

But in terms of nationhood, I'm afraid many Scots do not see England as a friend, partner and ally but as the dominant partner in a relationship that has outlived its relevance to Scotland.

The term "nationalistic" has nasty overtones for me and I prefer not to use it but I recognise Scotland as a nation and one that should be self determining but I agree that being "pro" Scottish does not mean that you have to be "anti" English.

[northfifeduckling]

  you know, my OH has been here for over 30 years and he is still referred to in town (by some people, mainly in venues he no loger frequents regularly) as the "English Bastard". It is easier for me, being from abroad *oh, I just couldn't place your accent there, love"....
In my view these general feelings folks have up here for the English are quite seperate from the way they may feel about the person they have in front of them. Xenophobia (fear of anyone strange or foreign) is probably very human BUT one always has the choice to view the individual with respect. Once that gets lost, things get nasty....
Don't let it get to you too much,shygirl, you are not meant personally, although it can be hard....

[Bodger]

Thankfully, many Scots do see England as a friend,ally and partner.

[Berkshire Boy]

Thankfully, many Scots do see England as a friend,ally and partner.

As we will see come the day of the vote.

[shygirl]

i will ask them tomorrow about what they think about independence. i did ask another scottish colleague today and he said it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other so basically he doesnt really care either way.

i did read on an orkney forum about independence and one orcadian brought up the point that if scotland left the UK then they would like orkney to remain in the uk without scotland. that was an interesting thought.

[Fleecewife]

Ok forget I spoke!  My opinion doesn't matter in the bigger scale of things anyway  


I am trying to show that these women may NOT have intended to be racist, nor even imagined that they were.

I do get your point Doganjo, but I see casual, unthinking racism as every bit as offensive and pernicious as deliberate and targeted racism.   It's not many years at all since 'political correctness' arrived on our shores from the States - thinking how racist in the broadest sense we all were back then is cringeworthy.   A mix of laws, education and example have meant that we have improved our act quite a bit, but it hasn't trickled throughout the whole of society yet.

[SallyintNorth]

i did read on an orkney forum about independence and one orcadian brought up the point that if scotland left the UK then they would like orkney to remain in the uk without scotland. that was an interesting thought.

We holidayed in Orkney a few years back, and it was made very clear to us by a number of Orcadians that Orkney has never felt itself to be Scottish, and feels about government by Scotland as many Scots feel about government by England!  Generally they felt themselves to be more Scandanavian, they said.

[SallyintNorth]

Ok forget I spoke!  My opinion doesn't matter in the bigger scale of things anyway  

Well that's true of most of us.  But don't underestimate the weight of your opinion within this fishpond Annie .

It's clear we all see the issues around racism generally differently too - prompted by your earlier comment that racism had to be targeted to an individual (which isn't how I would define it), I looked up a definition of racism and found both views expressed.  I think it is clear however that racism is a factually unfounded prejudice against a whole race (or creed or other grouping), or against an individual because of that individual's membership of that race (or creed or whatever.)

[Lesley Silvester]

Well put, Sally.


I agree that a lot of it is because of the government. As I said earlier, when I lived in Scotland, Maggie was PM and the hated Poll tax was brought in. At the time it was illegal as it was imposed on Scotland only and, as I understand it, when Scotland and England became part of the UK, it was laid down that the govt would never again inflict on Scotland, rules/taxes that did not also apply to England. I can understand why people were furious. BUT, and it's a big but, complaining to me about 'you lot' voting them in wasn't helpful because a) I personally did not vote Tory and b) I was liable for Poll tax as well.


Annie, your opinion does matter but that doesn't mean to say I have to agree with it. When you have people say to your face, "You English think/say/do..." (fill in as appropriate) that becomes more personal. And when you point out that that is rather offensive as we don't all think alike, and the response is, "Can't you English take a joke?" it isn't helpful.


To those who have wondered what nationality they count as if half Scottish/half English, according to the owner of our village shop on Arran her children, although born in England, are Scottish because their parents are Scottish. the children in the youth hostel were Scottish as they were born in Scotland, despite the fact that their father is English and their mother German. From this I deduce that if you are born in Scotland of non-Scottish parents, you are Scottish. If you are born in England but of Scottish parents, you are Scottish. 


I do hope that Scotland gains independence and that one of the advantages is that the bad feeling ends. Hope we won't need passports to visit though. I don't have one.

[Rosemary]

I do hope that Scotland gains independence and that one of the advantages is that the bad feeling ends. Hope we won't need passports to visit though. I don't have one.

You won't need a passport. We'll get you through in the back of a van 

[Rosemary]

Thankfully, many Scots do see England as a friend,ally and partner.

As we will see come the day of the vote.

Ach well, naebody's asking you 

[northfifeduckling]

did anyone see Limmy's comments on "that" vote on Charly Brookers weekly wipe? I laughed so hard I nearly weed myself 

[Lesley Silvester]

I do hope that Scotland gains independence and that one of the advantages is that the bad feeling ends. Hope we won't need passports to visit though. I don't have one.

You won't need a passport. We'll get you through in the back of a van 

Thanks, Rosemary. 

[Bodger]

For sometime now, I've been aware of the anti English sentiment expressed by a number of TAS members .  I only ever joined the forum because of my interest in smallholdings and certainly not to experience such a prolonged political undertone. I've seen it in a number of threads and topics and this latest one has proven to be the straw that's broken the camels back.