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Author Topic: Vasectomised ram vs sponging  (Read 9330 times)

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« on: January 24, 2014, 04:34:08 pm »
Hi everyone  :wave:

I am picking up some new pedigree sheep in 2 weeks time, they are in lamb (and have been sponged) and I cant wait :)

However I am also picking up a ram lamb, he will be fab for my shetlands, which leaves me with 4 rams (which I dont need)

I have two shetland rams, 1 hampshire down cross charrolais ram and then will have the new one


however which is better in people's opinions? vasectomised ram or sponging? I would like the sheep to lamb in a shortest time as possible and I know lots of people would say just to take the ram out in a shorter time and I did that this year, but I would ideally like everything to be covered. As im pretty convinced 2 wild ones got missed.

oh yeah and if anyone wants a shetland ram they are welcome to have it...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 11:59:09 am by Ladygrey »

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2014, 04:34:35 pm »
ow wrong forum  :gloomy:  :gloomy:  :gloomy: how do I move it?

Alistair

  • Joined Sep 2012
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2014, 09:13:49 am »
Bottom of the page there's a button that says move

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2014, 08:18:00 pm »
A vasecomised ram gets the flock cycling in sync but my experience is that you still get tupping over the whole cycle (well, I run the flock the other side of a stock fence from the entire tups, for a couple of months before tupping). So it tightens up lambing, but it's still spread out over at least 17 days.

Sponging this year for the first time, I split the flock into two, sponged four days apart, and the tups got half the flock all on one day and all the other half on days four and five. So I'll let you know how lambing is spread out but in theory it should be over less than a week.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 08:58:13 am »
I run the ram the other side of the fence as you do, JayKay.  Lambing is mainly over 17 days, too.  I still find the first timers with a single will tend to be a few days overdue and the old ewes with twins or triplets several days early.  I don't see how sponging will change this variation.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 10:16:50 am »
No, I don't think sponging changes the variability of each ewe, ie they may be a couple of days early or late, according to their 'dates'.

What sponging does is have them all ovulate on one day (or several specified days, if you split them into batches like I did).

So then your variation is a couple of days either side of that ovulation day, rather than over the full 17 days of the sheep cycle plus the couple of days either side, (for the 'first day of the cycle but a couple of days early' ewe and the 'last day of the cycle and a couple of days late' ewe).

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 10:51:44 am »
Hmm, when we had a very cold Winter a couple of years ago everything lambed nine days late. A ewe carrying triplets lambed 6 days early last Spring.  Couldn't really plan around those!

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2014, 06:45:47 pm »
Both have pro's and con's , if you can safely keep your stock rams the other side of fence for  circa 14 days then this will have the same effect as a vasectomized  ram,  either way as said lambing should be around 20 days .       Sponging if all taken out on the same day should take about 7-10 days  except if a ewe or two don't hold and will then cycle as normal 17 days later  .  it is rare but a sponge sometimes needs a vet to remove it if the strings pull out .    so for you to lamb in a very short time its sponges

allyb

  • Joined Sep 2011
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2014, 08:44:36 pm »
we used a teaser this year ran him with flock to get the ewes cycling 25 off them. We then sponged the whole lot all were serviced within 5hrs. Out off the 25 21 held and 4 repeated, We started lambing the 21 on Christmas day and all 21lambed within 4 days.The repeaters lambed all on same day 17 days later worked a dream for us  :) :)

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 10:04:18 pm »
I run the ram the other side of the fence as you do, JayKay.  Lambing is mainly over 17 days, too.  I still find the first timers with a single will tend to be a few days overdue and the old ewes with twins or triplets several days early.  I don't see how sponging will change this variation.


I tried that once. Took him about three days to smash the fence down and get in.

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2014, 12:56:09 pm »
Thanks everyone  :wave:

I tried rams on either side of a fence and it didnt work out so well...

I would love my sheep to lamb within two weeks of eachother ideally, so may try sponging next year :)

thanks

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2014, 01:52:31 pm »
I run the ram the other side of the fence as you do, JayKay.

I tried that once. Took him about three days to smash the fence down and get in.

Ah, that's the joy of keeping Down sheep - legs are too short to do that!

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 03:04:17 pm »
One Shetland tup went over the fence initially, so I've added a couple of top wires and he stays put now.

The Rough Fell tup, whilst weighing 100kgs and perfectly happy to knock me about  >:(, never breached the fence (but the Herdie tup and he used to headbutt through it  ::))

VSS

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • Pen Llyn
    • Viable Self Sufficiency.co.uk
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2014, 08:19:17 pm »
Teasing with a vasectomised ram will pull the bulk of your lambing into a fortnight. We have done this with considerable success for about 10 years.

To make it work, you have to get the timing right.

Ewe must be away from all contact with males for at least six weeks before you want to put the teaser ram in otherwise it won't work!

Put the teaser in with the ewes on day 1.
Take him out on day 14 and put the ram straight in. In practice you could take the teaser out a couple of days earlier without adversely affecting the results, but still don't put your ram in 'till day 14.

Bear in mind that this won't work if your ewes are already coming into season regularly so it works best at the beginning of the season. It will also be ineffective if the teaser isn't in full breeding condition, so when acquiring a teaser, use a breed that naturally has a slightly earlier breeding season than your ewes, or use a poll dorset/dorset horn cross - these will work at any time of year.
The SHEEP Book for Smallholders
Available from the Good Life Press

www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: Vasectomised ram vs sponging
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2014, 08:40:57 pm »
Thankyou VSS!

Thats a very good reply!

so if I vasectomised my shetland ram to bring ewes on heat earlyer that wouldnt work? as he only came into breeding state of mind 1st-2nd week of November

So that idea goes out of the window then....

If all of my ewes could lamb in two weeks I would be happy :)

Would a hampshire down cross charolais ram come into breeding season earlyer?

 

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