Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Home killing/butchering  (Read 19341 times)

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2014, 10:15:13 am »
Are you shooting to kill or stun before sticking?

whilst 2 peole hold the front legs apart and pump the left leg for a third person to catch and stir the nlood with their hand.


The ones I saw shot were shot with a .22 rimfire then bled straight away but the shot definitely killed them, it wasn't to stun them.

I'm interested in this MAK, whats the reason for pumping the left leg? I assume you mean moving it up and down as in what the pig does when walking?

I've not seen any mention of this before?

MAK

  • Joined Nov 2011
  • Middle ish of France
    • Cadeaux de La forge
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2014, 06:02:00 pm »
Sorry - I should have made it clear that we use the stun and stick method because we collet the blood to make black puddings. Certainly I would advocate hanging the pig and use gravity to drain the pig and ensure that the great vessels,heart and liver vessels do not have clots. Pumping the left leg must stimulate flow through a failing heart I guess - it seems to give results.
I should add that we have a chap in the commune that does all the home kills ( no charge) and that he is very experienced and professional. I set up a table for his tools and he changes his clothes twice after arrival to first do the dirty work then the clean work. We burn and scrape the skin then jet wash so this needs planning and of course a tractor is essential to hoist up the animals and move them around. 
I can carry half a pig on my shoulder but I need help to open the doors to get into the kitchen  :o   

 
www.cadeauxdelaforge.fr
Gifts and crafts made by us.

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2014, 04:33:44 pm »
Ok a bit further down the line now and awaiting final written confirmation on procedures to be followed etc but it looks like we're good to go  :thumbsup:

FAO, Defra, Animal Health (and me) are happier for a shotgun to be used rather than the .22 rimfire.

although the .22 is perfectly legal to use it is reckoned to be more of a stunning method than a killing method, although I did see a pig head opened to see where the .22 bullet went and it did actually penetrate the brain.

So the .22 will definitely kill, maybe its just not as quick to kill.

A shotgun in the brain is definitely a kill shot, no argument with that one.

So apart from the noise factor it looks like the shotgun is the tool for the job that will keep everyone happy.

My only concern with it is that I've got Kune Kunes and they are pretty small compared to the "normal" pigs kept for meat so the .22 would probably be fine and the shotgun massive overkill!

However, you can't kill anything deader than dead so maybe overkill doesn't apply in this case.

Once I have the official line on everything i'll post up the info.

it's been quite difficult getting to this stage, I don't know if I've been delayed or diverted deliberately away from what i'm trying to find out by the relevant official bodies but it does feel like that sometimes!!  :innocent:


Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2014, 02:12:42 pm »
Ok, i've not been on for a while but now have an update for this  ;D

We have now successfully home killed/butchered (and eaten) a few of our pigs  :thumbsup:

Due to the Commonwealth games up here there has been a delay on me getting my FAC updated so I bought a captive bolt stunner to do the job.

They were fed as normal on Friday morning but got nothing in the evening so they had a good 24 hours withdrawal time to get any food out of their system to make the cleaning process easier.

They still had access to water right up until they were killed.

in the evening moved them to a separate pen, gave them a good clean and hose down then a bed of fresh straw for the night so they were warm, dry and clean.

In the morning we led the first one very calmly out of the pen (out of sight of the other pigs), placed a small amount of food on the ground and whilst it was eating, placed the captive bolt stunner on its forehead, pulled the trigger and it dropped like a stone.

All very calm and relaxed, zero stress on the pig whatsoever, it was at home, wandering around with us getting patted and eating just as it had done every day since it arrived here, as far as it knew, today was no different to any other day.

none of the potential problems and stress of an abattoir trip such as loading and unloading into trailers, being penned up in a strange place and hearing the strange noises of other animals in the background etc.

Very impressed at the stunner, i've seen many animals killed and usually there is a good bit of kicking/flapping etc just from nerves but there was hardly any movement at all from any of the pigs, they just dropped on the spot.

it may be called a "stunner" but a pig or even a larger animal would not have recovered from this blow, I am quite confident that anything "stunned" using one of these would never regain consciousness even if it weren't bled.

The same model is used on African Water Buffalo so if its good enough for them its good enough for a Kune Kune.

We just burnt the hair off with a gas torch, not too bad a smell at all, I was quite surprised.

Quite a learning curve but with each one we did we got better and quicker.

We sorted out a local fallen stock company which lifts animal byproducts (head, innards etc) for £3.50 a bag so all that side of it was taken care of legally too.

So we're finally up and running, it took me a good few months to get all the legal stuff sorted and in writing and it was quite frustrating at times but we got there in the end! :thumbsup:

We've been eating spare ribs and sausage rolls for the last few weeks!  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 05:33:58 pm by Clansman »

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2014, 08:40:17 pm »
Good for you. Sounds like your pigs were happy till their last.

Mammyshaz

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Durham
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2014, 10:16:54 pm »
It sounds a worthwhile way to slaughter once the red tape is sorted. Its good to read how somebody has gone the extra mile to do everything on site, thanks for the information on your experience.

Congratulations on a stress free end for your pigs, enjoy your reward  :yum:

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2014, 03:12:56 pm »
Yep its definitely the way i'd choose to go!  ;D

There isn't actually any red tape as such, it was more the different agencies choosing not to actively assist and not offer help or info etc.

It would have been quite nice to have asked about home culling and someone come back to me and say well yes you can but you need to do A, B and C to keep it legal, that didn't happen and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was told more than once by these different agencies that although it is legal they are against it and do not encourage it.

MKay

  • Joined Jan 2013
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2014, 04:11:04 pm »
The only red tape is when you come to eat it, no friends or family shall dine here. That's if you abide by this rule, if not make sure the diners know not to share the fact.

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2014, 04:16:02 pm »
That was one example of what i mentioned above, I had to actually ask that question to get the answer, it wasn't offered openly when I asked the home kill question.

spandit

  • Joined Mar 2013
  • East Sussex
    • Sussex Forest Garden
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2014, 05:14:02 pm »
We sorted out a local fallen stock company which lifts animal products for £3.50 a bag so all that side of it was taken care of legally too.


I don't understand that sentence, could you please explain?

Good on you for doing the deed, probably a lot safer & cleaner than a shotgun. Not sure I'm up to that stage yet (although I did buy another shotgun yesterday :))
sussexforestgarden.blogspot.co.uk

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2014, 06:24:10 pm »
I'd guess Clansman means for disposing of the bits you can't/don't use - you can't dispose of animal 'by products' in your normal rubbish  ;)

Good on you Clansman  :thumbsup: and thanks for posting your experience, it'll hopefully be helpful to others who raise meat for themselves.

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2014, 09:14:12 am »
Yep thats it, it was supposed to read "animal byproducts", I think I got spell checked!  ;D

They collected all the bits that were left, head, intestines etc and gave us the proper paperwork notifying the disposal for our records and for the benefit of anyone who might ask to see it.

If we home kill a pig and can't produce any evidence showing proper disposal of the by products, i'd imagine we'd be up the smelly creek without a paddle!  ;)

I'll write up a small summary of what I've done in respect of the whole home butchery thing so that anyone else thinking of doing it can see what it entails.

Hopefully it will save someone else 8 months of emailing and phone calls!  ::)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:19:09 am by Clansman »

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2014, 03:29:05 pm »
Ok here's the process I went through from registering my CPH number through to the home kill.

January 6th 2014

Whilst registering for the CPH number with the Scottish government (SGRPID) I queried with them about home killing and butchering legislation.

They told me to speak to The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA) about it as I needed to apply to them for a herd number anyway.

AHVLA are a part of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA)

So I asked the question and the AHVLA emailed me a link to the DEFRA website…. ::)

I spent most of this week trying to get through on the DEFRA helpline, including twice actually getting through and being cut off whilst being put through to someone else!

I eventually got hold of someone who didn't know and advised me to email in my query!  ::)

email sent 10th January 2014, received automated reply stating the will answer all queries within 15 days but usually it will be quicker than that.

after many repeat emails I got this response on the 28th of April! (15 weeks later)

"Home killing of livestock

Thank you for your email of 10th January about home killing of livestock. I apologise for the delay in replying.

As you are in Scotland the best source of advice would be the Scottish Government. There is some guidance about slaughter in the enclosed link to the Scottish Government website. I also enclose a link to the contacts page.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/farmingrural/Agriculture/animal-welfare/AnimalWelfare/slaughter

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Contacts

I am sorry I cannot be of more direct help but I hope this information is useful.

Yours sincerely"


ok, I had been Royally fobbed off!

So I called the Scottish Government in Edinburgh, got a very helpful lady who gave me the number for the Food Standards Agency  (FSA) :thumbsup:

Rang the number and got another lovely lady in LONDON!! I'm in Scotland, they don't cover Scotland  ::)

She then gave me the number for the FSA in Aberdeen!

I was passed around a few people within the FSA before being advised to call my local Environmental Health Department.

Again I was involved in another few email conversations, passed around a few people within there before someone advised me to call the FSA!!  ::)

Now i'm not a believer in conspiracy theories but this was getting too ridiculous to be coincidental!

Ok so I now call the FSA in Aberdeen and ask to speak to the boss who unexpectedly took my call, listened to the tale of the fiasco and advised me to speak to the Humane Slaughter Association.

Now I explained at this point that I had everything in writing to date and could he please confirm to me in writing that the FSA in Aberdeen's official response to someone asking about home killing animals was to tell them to contact an independent registered charity for advice on government legislation?? (I didn't get it!)

I was also told that although it is legal the FSA actively discourage home killing.  ::)

I was then pointed to the FSA's website which contains a link to the Home Slaughter regulations.

http://www.food.gov.uk/scotland/regsscotland/regsguidscot/homeslaughterlivestockscot

I sent an email where I laid out exactly the procedures I intended to follow from the FSA regulations and asked if these procedures were followed would this be legal and I got a response stating it would be!!! we were nearly there!  :thumbsup:

I did call the Humane Slaughter Association too http://www.hsa.org.uk and spoke at length to Charlie Mason who runs it, I was surprised that he actually kills his own animals, I was honestly expecting him to be one of the tree hugger veggie types :innocent:

He was very helpful and recommended using a .410 shotgun on pigs as first choice, the reason being that a stunner operated in the home environment may be a bit more susceptible to inaccuracy, or not being applied correctly etc and not stunning the animal correctly, whereas you're really not going to miss or slightly stun an animal if you have a shotgun a couple of inches from its head.

Actually the only concern I have had when using the stunner is that the pig may just move as I press the trigger and it doesn't make full contact, although every time I have done it so far there has been no issue whatsoever.

We have had Environmental Health out for an inspection after informing them of our plans and they quite openly admitted they don't condone home slaughter at all but that it is perfectly legal to do so.

So, the rules you need to adhere to are:

1. Only you or a member of your immediately family who lives with you can kill, clean and butcher the animal on your own premises.

2. You cannot take it onto someone else's premises at any stage.

3. You cannot have anyone who doesn't live with you come and help out at any stage, other people can watch, no one can assist.

4. Only you and your immediate family who live with you can eat the produce.

5. It cannot be sold, swapped or given away to anyone else outside the family who live on the premises, you can make your own sausage rolls and take them on a picnic but it is illegal to give one to anyone else.

6. All animal byproducts must be disposed of through a proper fallen stock company as normal

7.  The TSE regulations do not apply to pigs, poultry, reared game, rabbits etc

The EU last year introduced a law which makes it legal for licensed mobile slaughter men to kill on the farm provided the produce is not sold on the market.

The FSA in the UK are looking at this and although it is not legal yet there may be a good chance it could happen in the future.

I appreciate the whole home killing process is not for everyone but I am willing to bet that there are many out there who would happily butcher their own animals on the farm if a qualified slaughter man came to the farm to kill and clean it for them first.

http://multimedia.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/enforcement/enf-s-13-026a.pdf

I don't think i've missed anything but I probably have!  ;D
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:35:06 pm by Clansman »

ladyK

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Conwy Valley
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2014, 07:14:24 pm »
Thank you Clansman for the very detailed information - this is really useful to know about the allowable procedures in such detail. Sharing your experience is much appreciated!
I'm a long way away from having my own stock ready to go, but if at all possible I would feel so much better if I could have it done in familiar surroundings for the animals. And, if the law changes I'd be very keen to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman/butcher.
"If one way is better than another, it is the way of nature." (Aristotle)

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Home killing/butchering
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2014, 09:20:23 am »
yep i'm sure many would, its common sense really, the rules have just been taken too far in the past preventing it being done.

i'm sure there are plenty people out there who can happily butcher an animal but aren't too keen on the killing/gutting side of things.


 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS