Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Planning problems,  (Read 7930 times)

nettehere

  • Joined Nov 2013
Planning problems,
« on: November 09, 2013, 10:35:25 am »
Hi I am new to this site, but i have a smallholding consisting of approximately 10 acres, of which i recently purchased 4.7 acres adjoining my land, on the 4.7 acres was a barn that had been damaged by the wind and had been rebuilt and damaged again, so when i took over the land i decided to rebuild it and make it more substantial, at this point planning enforcement officers came and said i was to stop work and apply for planning, they said there wouldn't be a problem but i had to get planning first, i made the mistake of then purchasing a mobile home and had it moved onto the area of land as it was the only place i could get access into the field, i initially bought it to use as extra accommodation for my visitors during the summer, planning said i had to get it off, i have had so many problems and it has now been 6 months, i applied for planning for the barn, redesigned it and made it safe, now they are saying i cant keep livestock in it as there is no ventilation, there are two large 12' doors on the sides that can be removed and replace with gates, then they said i had said the use would be for vehicles and feed, i didn't put a use down i just said it was a rebuild of an original barn that had stood for nearly four years, now they are saying i need planning for a goat shed 8'x6' i am slowly losing the will to live, i would like to move  on to my land, i have run the land as a business for breeding pigs and sheep and goats all rare breed from my adjoining house, however, i am about to seperate from my husband and i would like to move onto the land, help please, how do i do this, i can rent more land if needed, but how do i stop them harassing me and let me finish my barns, nette

MAK

  • Joined Nov 2011
  • Middle ish of France
    • Cadeaux de La forge
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 10:46:04 am »
Sorry to hear of your difficulties. It seems once one is known to these planning officals they dig their teeth in and won't let go.
I have no experience with such but maybe invite them back and ask them to list what they would like to see and how they sugest you can build what you need - if they listed a few points then you could work to that and invite them back as work gets started.
Good luck and I hope that it works out for you.
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Tala Orchard

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • North Cornwall
    • Tala Orchard
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 10:59:35 am »
We ahve been in a similar position have you read the book 'Field to Farm' you will find that enlightening also take a look at their website it may be helpfull.
Pigs are human tooo

nettehere

  • Joined Nov 2013
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 11:05:36 am »
Hi the barn is now complete so i have to apply for retrospective permission, but they now want me to list what it is to be used for, so if i just put livestock, they could delay, what does a general purpose description mean, I have hay in there at present and sheep, ideally i want to stall the inside so i can use it for sheep and goats, given the amount of land do i really need planning for a shed 8 x 6 they also said i hadnt got enough land or animals to warrant the size of my shed 40 x 60 and that all the land had to be in one peice is that correct, i have ordered field to farm book so until it arrives i cant get the answers i need, it is asking for the last word on page to for me to access what i want.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 01:16:12 pm »
Usage| General purpose means basically machinery storage or hay/straw or similar type storage. It will never cover livestock housing, that will need PP unless the old building has that usage already.


Planning permission: You would have been able to repair the old barn the old barn without PP but rebuilding it means PP required. The definition of rebuilding will depend on if you ripped the old one down first (bad move)


To do anything new or rebuilt without full pp would only be possible using agricultural prenotification and that's mainly available only to holdings of 5ha or over (approx 12 acres) and again only covers non livestock uses.


The size of the building isn't a consideration 8x6 or 60x40 is the same deal if it's a permanent structure. Thers no permitted development for sheds etc like there is on garden ground.




You can have the mobile home on the agric land but only if it's required for seasonal agricultural purposes eg lambing and they can make you remove it or at least move it outside that time, so a tourer would prob be better.




What I wold suggest (note I'm not a planning expert but do take an interest and read a lot!)


- erect 'temporary' structures for any livestock housing, eg like a 24x12 field shelter. Mine has a swinging central partition so I can use it as two stables or one barn. As long as its on skids and no base, you should be safe from planning POV. They may make you move it periodically to prove mobility.
- apply for planning for the barn for machinery storage and feed and hay and straw storage. 40x60 is large for the area of land so be prepared to negotiate, however if you can demonstrate the need they will have to grant it (trouble is it is subjective)
- re accommodation - unless you can come up with a watertight business case for why your stock specially need you to be immediately on the land, you will not be granted PP to just set up home on agricultural land, whatever field to farm says, you need the business case and apply for PP to put a mobile on there backed up by a solid business case and they may then grant that for a few years after which if the business cAse is proven in reality they will consider an app fora permanent dwelling.

henchard

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Two Retirees Start a New Life in Wales
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Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 02:07:25 pm »
but how do i stop them harassing me and let me finish my barns, nette

I doubt if they are harassing you merely enforcing the legislation as it exists. Most Local Authorities will explain the legislation and their policies quite clearly if you ask. Ultimately, for all their faults (and there are many), LA's are democratically accountable and on the whole try to enforce the legislation fairly. You may want a mobile home whilst many others may feel it should be retained as unspoilt countryside. There are two sides to every coin.

Bottom line is that everyone moved mobile homes onto bits of land around the country there wouldn't be any countryside to enjoy just one big mass of mobile homes.

nettehere

  • Joined Nov 2013
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 10:49:52 am »
Hi thankyou for your replies, what i am asking is, does my patches of land have to be in one lot, as i have rented land 3 mile away that would make my land total 14 acres, so does that mean it gives me more allowances on putting a shed up or barn up, I breed rare breed sheep and pigs, but also I am going to plant fruit and herbs, with a view to having a cottage industry, so do i put use for the barns as agricultural use or do i have to list every use possible for my application, x

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 01:16:39 pm »
My understanding is yes the land has to be in one piece, you can't add up parcels of land, so no the extra land won't help get you over the minimum for the main planning concessions.


You don't have to list every activity you will be using the land for but you do have to specify the main ones and specifically any which mean that you would need Full PP as opposed to pre notification. So, any livestock use must always be specified. Also any business use, anything requiring significant traffic movements etc.


Anything that was for a business which would not qualify as agricultural farming would also need to be clearly specified, that might include agricultural contracting and also would certainly include any separate business.




landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2013, 09:27:35 pm »
 I don't know where you live, but certainly in England  your land does not have to be all in one bit for Permitted Development. We have just been granted PD for 2 X 60'x 30' buildings on a 9 acre site which is 2 miles from our main holding. And it includes permission to house livestock in winter. Many years ago we got permitted development for our first buildings on a seperate 3 acre site, and were told we couldn't house livestock in them. We have used them for sheep each winter ever since, and no one has said anything. The main hurdle is getting your buildings in the first place. Once you've got them up, then unless someone complains, (like housing pigs near someone's house),  you can usually do what you like. After all, who knows what's behind closed doors?
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 08:13:04 am »
Sounds like what I was told by an official was wrong then! (which is absolutely not unknown!)


The reasons for livestock being an issue are largely down to noise, smell and waste products. Sheep present less of all of these so might be able to be kept under the radar whereas cattle etc would be no chance. If they are more than 400m from any other properties that helps....

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
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Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2013, 09:24:36 am »
Sounds like what I was told by an official was wrong then! (which is absolutely not unknown!)
Who knows L&M?  :innocent: Scotland and England do differ in law and may also differ in planning.  In my case years ago they definitely did.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2013, 10:34:51 am »
Thats very true!!


Have just had a quick look and apparently this even varies within Scotland!
Some planning authorities apparently  say it has to be a single piece of land, others allow it to be separate!! :thinking:


OP I think this is one where you would have to check with your own local authority planning policy, wherever that is!

nettehere

  • Joined Nov 2013
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 10:56:25 am »
landrovery thank you i am in north shropshire, and have searched a building across the road from me they got granted no planning required and it is 18m by 10m thereabouts and they have 7 acres, but they put agricultural use and are using it for horses, so i suppose it depends on what you say you are going to do with it at the time, i have obviously told them to much and they have seen pound notes, they originally told me it would cost £350 for the application and when i went online i paid £80 so i dont know, just seems like trading standards should be investigating them for ripping people off x
how do i find out the rules within my county without highlighting its me, regards Annette

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Planning problems,
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 12:24:02 pm »
£350 is a typical planning application fee, £80 is a typical agricultural prenotification fee....Are they getting confused about which applies, or getting wires crossed?

 

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