[Backinwellies]

Very sceptical ........  rumen develops with just some forage ... doesn't have to be 100% forage diet  and noone totally feeds their sheep concentrates or they would die of bloat!

[SteveHants]

I can only out it down to early conc feeding impairing rumen function....

Can you elaborate on that? This is a long term effect of feeding concentrates early?

Yes, it inhibits rumen development - this is one of the gripes commercial farmers have when buying rams etc that have been fed - they have been fed throughout their lives and you could put them on all the grass you like and they will still melt because the rumen didn't develop properly - meaning you need to feed them all their lives.

Do you have scientific evidence to back that up Steve or is just by word of mouth from disgruntled commercial farmers who may not have looked after their stock properly

Its basically subacute acidosis.


Really nice picture of two rumens in this slideshow - although the talk is missing you can get the gist: http://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/pdf_files/Performance-testing-of-rams27032012085011.pdf


Nice definition of acidosis here although it goes on to talk of how to treat the acute form: http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/articles/lambdisease.html


On a more general note, I feel that 'looking after' stock rams should mostly mean making sure they have enough grass to go at. There is the odd bucket you can give them if for whatever reason they are looking poor (green lid ones by MVF, for example), but they shouldn't need it. I expect their offspring to grow on milk and grass, therefore the fully grown adult version should maintain good body condition on grass. My rams are almost ready to go in, have had only grass since they last worked, serve at least 80 ewes each and all are above CS 3 - this goes for my Wilts, My Easycare, SufTexes and the Charrolais ram lamb I have just bought (Born Apr 2013 outside, no concs and is already 70KG - I'm impressed).

[feldar]

I can understand where you are coming from Steve but on the lambing system i have i couldn't possibly not feed some concentrate or i would never finish any lambs for market at all.
December lambing coupled with no grass or any of quality would mean my lambs would really struggle.
As the baby lamb's rumen develops i have to challenge it with more than just grass and lamb creep is formulated to do this. There is a whole industry devoted to sheep nutrition and whilst i realise they want me to buy their product if it didn't work, me and a lot of other farmers wouldn't use it.
I don't agree with overfeeding any animal but you have to make good of what you have, and geography must come into it.
My ground is not good and though i've taken steps to improve it, i will only achieve so much. If i were in Devon or Dorset i probably wouldn't feed much concentrate.
I don't have a high incidence of acidosis because if you feed correctly this shouldn't happen.
I have friends who tip the grub into their animls and still top the market for tups, and  sell year on year.
Our show lambs are fed yes but not overstuffed and as they mature they are backed off the concentrate gadually, we never feed the shearling rams because they need to go out and live and work and no-one has ever complained about any of our rams melting away when they get them. so whilst i agree with some of what you say, i think feeding is ok, if a little common sense is used.