[MikeM]

pretty sure this is something most of us knew, but it's interesting nonetheless:
 
http://www.etcgroup.org/content/yet-another-un-report-calls-support-peasant-farming-and-agroecology
 
Something to think upon, especially when you see more and more farms being amalgamated into fewer and fewer hands.

[Fleecewife]

The world seems to be trapped in the big business claims that only they can produce enough cheap food to feed the world and that food produced at peasant level is too expensive.  Of course they are only considering the financial costs - money money money - and not the irrecoverable costs to the Planet.
 
Environmental groups have been giving out information for decades now about how something simply has to be done to halt the slide, but still it goes on and still the general populace doesn't seem to give a toss.   Not good.

[MikeM]

I recall the Blair govt commissioned a report called something like Britain feeding itself in the 21c (can't recall the exact name), on the panel were representatives from big ag companies like Syngenta, big landowner groups like the CLA and was chaired by the former chairman of Sainsbury's. There were no representatives from smallholding organisations, no advocates for small farming like Simon Fairlie or Colin Tudge, no one like greenpeace etc. Needless to say, their conclusion was that the only solution was even bigger big ag, and the rules should be changed to suit those organisations.

[Fleecewife]

Makes you weep.
 
I do wonder what the possible solutions are, at 'grass roots' level - if there even are any solutions.  What can those of us who can see what's coming actually do to halt the advance of corporate greed?  Is there anything which will have an actual effect?  A peasants' revolt, even worldwide, would hardly be noticed, no matter how right the cause.
 
In the very long term, Gaia will just have a big scratch and shake off the human parasites, then whatever life survives she will start again.  And we'll have only ourselves to blame for the annihilation of the human species.   The magnitude of such an end is too big for us to fully comprehend, so it's back to giving in to the big money men and defeat for the rest of us.

[MikeM]

well, I think there are things that could be done to halt the greed, but my feeling is they won't be done. People are too comfortable, they have big brother and the latest smart phone and X factor and credit enough to go on holiday. People will only do something when they start to feel the pain. What smallholders etc can do is start to prepare themselves to fill the void for when the system starts to break down. If they (smallholders etc.) do this and have the infrastructure in place to meet the demand, it will cushion the blow a lot.
I think there will be a significant slowdown, things that we take for granted will no longer be there. Food will become scarcer and more expensive. Not many people nowadays have the skills (or land) to grow food and rear animals, those that do will have a very important role to play in the future.

[Castle Farm]

I wonder how many of us on here with enough land to feed ourselves actually get anywhere near the amount of produce that it would take to feed a family, let alone have enough to sell/share, not many if any at all.

Thank god for big agricultural companies that have enough money and clout to feed the people and make enough profit to carry on doing so.

This idea that smallholders can feed the world is clap trap and besides which the same with any animal you have an excess of food and they will breed more.

I'm in full agreement with GM food and whatever it takes to feed an ever expanding human race.

[MikeM]

there have actually been a number of studies that prove that smallholders around the world (this is the importent bit, there's more to the world than this little island) produce more per acre than the big ag set ups do. I could provide you with quite a mind opening reading and viewing list, if you're genuinely interested.

[Fleecewife]

Perhaps we should refer to 'family farms' rather than smallholders.  I too was thinking that smallholders here in Britain probably don't contribute much foodwise outside their own families.  However, small farmers and market gardeners do, both in Britain and the rest of the world.
 
The exponential increase in the world's population must surely worry you a bit Castle Farm.  There are already countries in the world where there is not enough food for everyone, or if food is available then it is hung onto by those with the power - but I don't want to get into that discussion.  It's obvious that political change is essential to achieve a worthwhile, realistic plan of action.
As the population balloons and sea level rises, good land will be lived on, so where will we grow our crops?  Big business giant farms need flat and very fertile land to be able to produce their high yield crops - just the land which will be taken by the sea, or lived on by all those people.  It is the smaller scale farmers who will have the skill to produce food from the second rate land, unsuitable for giant machinery no matter how many chemicals they pour on.
 
<<<the same with any animal you have an excess of food and they will breed more>>>.
So what do you advocate?  That people should have their 'breeding' rate reduced by starvation and poor health? Observation shows that those who are struggling most seem to feel the need to have an excess of children, as they expect to lose a high proportion of them. 
 People in good health, with a good quality, varied diet, will have an interest in the world above where their next meal comes from, and will see for themselves and through education that restricting the number of children they have will be for their own benefit, as well as for the earth's.
But that is a slow way to proceed.  What is needed is something we can do now to halt the decline.  We have already taken more than a generation and really achieved not a lot.

[Steph Hen]

Some sobering posts there.

My husband's family farm is big, (but I have a smallholders mentality, so don't feel like an imposter here; my dream is (and has been since age 3!) been to be selfsufficient, rearing a handful of happy animals for the freezer, growing my own veg and bartering the rest).

It seems to me that there is a place for both in this country. I am always amazed at two things on the farm - the huge scale, speed and efficiency of everything, and how reliant on inputs the crops are. Impressive and scarrily unsustainable.




 

[MikeM]

steph, good point re the inputs. The growth in food production mirrors very closely the growth in oil production over the last 100 odd years. We are at the end of cheap oil, we need to find a way to grow food without those vast inputs of oil.

[Steph Hen]

I just can't see what will happen.
Farming (our whole culture) no longer being reliant on oil! I can only see a huge step change sometime - can you imagine if every third year, cropped fields had to be taken out of production and put into some benificial ley or something? That would be massive.
I've seen some 'nice' videos on eco-agro-forestry-type things on Youtube, but they all seem to be sandle wearing, "here's a little current bush growing under a hazel tree, with some mushrooms down here", which is lovely for ideas and inspiration, but doesn't feed a family, let alone a country, and the idea of doing it on a big scale is kinda impossible. I find it very scary. (Rant over, spent too long in the house, going out now!)

[hughesy]

Large scale commercial farming has to happen. Or we have to get rid of a massive amount of the world's population. I'm all for local, small scale food production. I do it. I sell my produce less than four miles from where it is farmed, direct to the consumer, but if if every member of the local population suddenly decided they wanted to buy local it just couldn't happen. I was once told that if every chicken consumed in the UK was produced in an outdoor, free range environment, we'd need the whole of Europe just to provide enough chicken for the UK. It doesn't work.

[MikeM]

it does work, it has been proven to work in many parts of the world. We may not be able to support an affluent, western, modern diet, but it can be done.
 
http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/can-britain-feed-itself
 
http://www.monbiot.com/2008/06/10/small-is-bountiful/
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/So-Shall-We-Reap-Worlds/dp/0141009500/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1380124266&sr=8-7&keywords=colin+tudge
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agri-Culture-Reconnecting-People-Land-Nature/dp/1853839256/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1380124308&sr=8-3&keywords=jules+pretty
 
Colin Tudge: The Importance of Small-Scale Farms
 
and here's the crunch, we have no choice. We need to use a lot less oil, we need to lower our carbon emissions. So we have to find a way.
 

[sabrina]

The supermarkets have ruined a lot of farmers. If we had another war not only could this country not defend itself but the chances of feeding our people is pretty poor. One of our local potato farmers has just given up. Reason, Tesco. He was working 7 days a week for next to nothing. Dairy farmers, well not many of them left. Before you know it we will be living on powder milk from abroad .Life has to change, go back to basic where its not all about the rich taking everything and to heck with the rest of us. Even if as a smallholder you could produce enough food for your family do you believe that your neighbours would not be helping themselves if there was no other way to get food. Just look at the looting that goes on during riots. does not bare thinking about. We do well for lamb and pork but if I did not have the means to rear them we would not eat much meat, could not afford it. The farmer I buy my straw from got back into sheep a couple of years ago. He is now saying its not worth all the hours he has to put in. I just do not get it. Lamb is dearer than steak. How can  the producer make less than the shop that sells his product. total crazy.

[Steph Hen]

I won't shop at Tesco, they're the worst!

Thank you for the short film, it was good. (Although I do wish he was clean shaven and wearing a sharp suit, just to emphasis that he is not a "hippy/greeny/commy"). I understand the logic and agree that we do have the potential to sort this out, but I can't see it actually happening. I can't see us easing into this sustainable, lower input solution... and its true, we have no choice but to reduce oil. Its not going to go well.

Labour alone is tricky, people don't want to do the jobs... 1% of the people are employed on the land in the UK, he advocated 10-20% would be more sensible, but also advocated the part time farmer. There's no way 20% of our population would be willing to get their hands dirty for such little money.