[smudger]

Made some enquiries with a local butcher but he doesn't buy 'entire' male lambs - is this unusual?

[Foobar]

No.  Some people believe that they have a different taste ("ram taint"), especially if killed too late in the year when their hormones are in full swing.

[SteveHants]

Some claim they are harder to skin too.


Butcher at abbotoir reckons that you can tell if they are going to be tainted before you even kill them.


Interestingly, Sainsburys welfare code does not now allow mutilations, so they buy entire males.

[Hevxxx99]

Interesting! So does that preclude docking also?

How old are your boys, Smudger? 

[ZaktheLad]

That's interesting SteveHants - hadn't heard that about Sainsburys.

[lachlanandmarcus]

Ha! I think my castrated boys prefer having almost two years of fun and frolics as wethers as they would five months as entires, ESP entires who never get to do anything!


TBH if done properly the lambs barely notice the ring , and skip away, can't really see it as mutilation given its perfectly accepted for other species like horses dogs and cats to 'arrange' them, the anaesthetic and jabs for doing it the way it's done with those causes more visible discomfort than I've seen in my ringed lambs.


Hey ho.


I do think that long tails ought to be tried to be bred shorter tho, our northern Shorttailed breeds never need tail docking.

[hexhammeasure]

we use the second grade entire tups in the box scheme and each time we do the response is always more positive about how tastier they were. I think people buying from source look upon flavour as a good thing!!

[SallyintNorth]

Interestingly, Sainsburys welfare code does not now allow mutilations, so they buy entire males.

I am fascinated by this.

How are they sourcing their lambs, then?  Where did you hear about this, Steve?

[Dougal]

No mutilation for Sainsburys... so just how do they tag them?
 

[Hevxxx99]

Indeed!  Pastern bands?  I don't think anyone does them yet.  Or bolus I suppose.

I agree that banding lambs if done properly is fairly unstressful and the longer life is probably more desirable but if they are only due to last 5/6 months anyway, is it necessary?

Interesting that your customers prefer the flavour of entire meat though, Hexhammeasure

[SteveHants]

Interestingly, Sainsburys welfare code does not now allow mutilations, so they buy entire males.

I am fascinated by this.

How are they sourcing their lambs, then?  Where did you hear about this, Steve?

Feller that told me supplies them through Randall Parker - Launceston.


Edited for clarification - tailing and castration are mutilations whereas tagging is not, no part of the animal is removed when you tag. I mean 'mutilations' in the proper, biological sense of the word - I have no ideological problem with castration if thats what you want to do - I don't do it because I lamb outside and I think that anything that slows the lam down is a mistake lambing outdoors and this policy has suited me pretty well so far.

[shygirl]

german sheep farmers dont castrate if i remember an earlier thread correctly.

[smudger]

My ram lambs were born end March - mid april so only 4 ish months old. Could understand it if they were hogget or mature....

[novicesmallholder]

We sent our entire boys at 18 months old, and the feedback has been very positive - lovely flavour and lean.
 
Our vet recons the meat is leaner if you leave them entire.
 
A well respected breeder we know also recons that if the ram hasn't "pleasured" a ewe then there will be no taint as the hormones have not entered the body??

[SallyintNorth]

It's a skilled job, fattening an entire ram lamb.  At a certain age/stage, they can lose interest in feeding as other things begin to take their attention.  The butcher then can be presented with a rather poor carcase, and it costs him the same to butcher it as a fully-fleshed one, but he will get a lot less back in sales. 

Our butcher will take any lamb from us, because he trusts us to know what he wants.  But at a certain point in the season, if we send him more than the odd entire ram lamb, he will quietly mention that we "seem to be getting the tail-enders now," and that perhaps he won't have any more after the current batch...

In truth, it's a skilled job, fattening any lamb for a High St or village butcher.  Too fat and it costs him more to butcher it as he has to do a lot of trimming, plus he's paid for it per kilo deadweight and has to throw a lot of fat away; too little flesh and/or poor conformation, and his cost to butcher per kilo goes up.  Too young and there may be insufficient flavour; too much cake and the texture may suffer; too slow-grown and the fat may be yellow which some buyers won't like, and so on.